Bagua Dao

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

Why is it that the dao(saber) is the main weapon, or weapon of choice, in Bagua?

[Crimson Phoenix]

It is?

[count]

I almost made the same reply yesterday. Could you clerify your question eight_trigram_boxer?

My weapon of choice is the elbow daggers. In our system we have a bagua dao, but it is about 5 ft long and weighs enough so you have to train your whole body with it. The other normal sized saber form we have, I believe comes from Hsing-I in the first place. As I understand it, since a lot of the early bagua men were guards in the imperial palace, and no weapons were allowed inside the palace, so the weapons of choice were smaller ones that could be concealed up the sleeves.

[Lincoln]

My weapon of choice is the spear. It trains whole body power, finesse, fa jing and it has very good range.
I heard that Gong Bao Tian was allowed to carry a sword in the Imperial Palace and that it was his favorite weapon. I think that he was about the only one allowed to do so.

Lincoln

[count]

Finally, some bagua posting from Lincoln. Interesting comment on Gong's weapon of choice. How did you like the photo of Gong Bao Tien I sent you?

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

OK, you all may prefer another weapon but in every style of Bagua the one weapon that is common to all is the Dao. Why? That's the question.
Lincoln, in the palace a lot of the guards were allowed to carry a dao, they were not allowed to carry a jian. That is reserved for royalty. It wasn't just Gong. If you think I'm wrong then just go check some history books.

[RAF]

Historically the dao is a foot soldier's weapon. The 4 traditional weapons are dao, jian, staff and spear. Being common does not necessarily mean being the main or weapon of choice. Bagua is characterized by its use of "wierd" weapons. [by wierdness I am referring to the design. There is actually a Chinese word used to characterized the weapons of the system but I can't remember. However wierd they may look, they are extremely functional)].

That's interesting about the dao and bodyguards. What history book have you read that states that the bodyguards within the Palace carried daos as their weapon?

I think the Count is correct in his assertion about weapons being carried within the Palace. I am sure that foot soldiers used the dao outside the palace. The dao is the easiest (quick, too) to learn effectively of the 4 weapons and very expansive in movement in contrast to the sword which is more refined in movement. You find the same relationship with the staff (more expansive) to the spear (expansive but also very refined).

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

Read the article by Ma Chaunxu in Jarek's website. According to his article there is no main weapon in bagua and given the diversity of its practitioners and that they were all skilled in some other art before training in bagua, that makes sense.

Also scroll down and read the importance of training with the da qiang to develop shenfa. Lincoln is right on target!

[kungfu cowboy]

Hey count, have you got any pics of these elbow daggers, or could you please describe them? Sounds cool.

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

OK...

[count]

I asked my friend in China right now to find some for me. If he does, I will post a pic. Basically they cuff around the elbows and can be pointed on one side or both. Very good in close. Works perfectly with our bagua 12 elbows set.

Good post RAF, thanks for the links.

[kungfu cowboy]

That's ok. They sound neat.

[batesy]

Could one answer be that the slashing movements characteristic of broadsword are more in keeping with the turning, spiralling moves of bagua? Or is this too simplistic an explanation?

[maoshan]

Peace All

batesy

Beyond the basic four,(dao, jian, staff and spear, All the weapons
of Ba-Gua are designed for that effect. The DeerHorn Knives as well as the tigerhook swords are even more suited for the charecteristics of Ba-Gua. as for me, I Love the Deerhorn knives but my favorite weapon is the spear.

Peace
Maoshan

[TaoBoxer]

Of all the "Traditional" ba gua weapons I have played with (I say Play b/c I have never been instructed in any of them formally) I really like the paired daggers the best. I also think they are the most practical for the 21st century.

I have a pair of Deer Hook Swords, Mandarin Duck Axes, Needles (made by Bladerigger!!) my Daggers, and the Jian, Dao, Spear and Cudgel.

Interestingly, I was playing with a japanese Jo and I had a lot of fun with that... Incorporating some of the whipping Jo techniques of Kukishinden with the turns.... It was interesting.

Bill

[Nexus]

For those who train staff and spear,

Are there any merchants that have nice quality spears for sale? Also are there any staffs which weigh a good deal more than ratan or bamboo and could be used to build up additional strength in the arms. Oak perhaps?

Staff and Spear Experts, I await your answers.