The Olympics & Wushu

[firepalm]

Bad news about CMA surviving a little longer is it's in YKW's one dimensional bonehead perspective.

[Mortal1]

"Good news. CMA may survive a little bit longer."

You have got to be kidding. That is a blow to kungfu training. Just because it is different then what you do doesn't make it any less valid. When a good kungfu movie comes out is it a blow to kungfu because the actors do wushu? Enrollemnt went up big time at my old school after crouching tiger came out. I don't see anything wrong with that.

"Bad news about CMA surviving a little longer is it's in YKW's one dimensional bonehead perspective."

lol Agreed.

[MightyB]

It's funny how I don't hear complaints about how the Kodokan controls everything in Judo circles... Although I do hear nothing but complaints and animosity in TKD circles between the ITF and the WTF.

Of course there were going to be many problems with the first appearance of Wushu in the Olympics, but you have to start somewhere.

[mantis108]

I don't agreed that Kung Fu will survive a little longer in fact it's pretty much hanging by a thread. But I and with YouKnowWho all the way on this one.

Please check this thread started by me on the Mantis broad:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=39042

Modern Wushu is pure mockery of tradition period. It's like the Manchurians court wanted uniforms so some smart Han tribe official gave them those robes that's symbolic of animal (peac0c k plume hat, hoof cuffs, etc). So the Han tribe can always make fun of those "Royals" (pun intended with the selected few who did Wushu in the beginning). The smart TCMA masters that were given the task of designing Wushu and presented it to the Communist did the same trick. But ignorance is bliss I suppose but it doesn't turn what is wrong into right.

The line between Wushu and Kung Fu has to be drawn firmly. That's the only way to preserve real skills.

Mantis108

[Mortal1]

If you master wushu basics you could master any traditional style.

But if everyone has a potbelly and does there forms slow, mixed with some sloppy sparring, like most traditional schools. And every Sifu has 3 years experiance. Only these people are the true slayers of TCMA.

Not sport wushu.

[TonyM.]

I'm glad wushu won't be at the olympics. It has enough problems as it is without hanging out with organized crime types. If you think the triads are bad wait until you get even a glimpse of the camorra.

[xifanghong]

No Wushu at the Olympics. Great.

There is no case for Wushu being a continuation of TCMA, or an evolved form. It was an intervention by a massive political power. Replacing one with the other over the course of a few boardroom decisions.

Modern Wushu is just a floor gymnastics comp that is modelled on kung fu shapes. It has a judging system that judges forms on a points system that requires specific technical moves. And it's a slap in the face of Chinese Culture.

And please don't be confused by Sanda. Sanda is simply the Chinese national kicboxing system/ regional rules. It's as separate from Modern Wushu as K-1 is.

The biggest problem is all these Wushu people who promote it as Kungfu. And the amount of magazines and media who eat it up.

Not having it in the olympics buys a lot of time.

But anyway, the olympics. The air won't be cleaned up in time and al the athletes are going to choke.

[Wong Fei Hong]

modern wushu taolou is gay and has nothing to do with martial arts so i dont see why anyone should mind wether its in the olympics or not Its like saying oh no flicking bogeys has been removed from the olympics.
All the forms look the same its all one basic longfist form with butterfly kicks flips and jumps and then depending on what style you are meant to do they stop and pull a pose, so its like jump flip roll kick fly stop, erm pull EAGLE pose run kick flip flop get your balls out butterfly kick high kick flying kick flip.
Now if you want you can substitute the eagle pose for mantis or tiger, dragon, bald minged beagle. And you are a master of 148 wushu forms.
Or you could do the nanchuan southern form , which is the conglomeration of 128 southern styles into one modern wushu form,the only souther wushu form, and that actually looks more like karate on methamphetamine.

On another note i cant believe the tkd guys have a federation called wtf hehehehehe

[MightyB]

I watched two of Nick Gracenin's students compete in a TCMA empty hands and Weapons forms competition and they both took top honors. They won because they were good.

Yeah, the contemporary competition forms are too prancy and tin foil weapons are quite "gay" (YKW's term) BUT they are now trying to base judging on the level of difficulty of the forms. It's true that they emphasize acrobatics and not function because the acrobatics are harder to perform. Should this be addressed, yes. The problem comes from the need for publicity and audience appeal and the difficulty on agreeing on what's important. How do you get agreement on who expresses jing or who's form execution determines who's a better fighter?

Can there be a way to create a couple of compulsary TCMA forms that could be used for competition?

Plus, why is it so wrong for a TCMA teacher to teach a contemporary Wushu form so that their students would be able to compete in the international games? There are competitive Tai Chi forms now being taught that are less "gay" than the prancy forms... why couldn't a TCMA school adopt those for forms and then compete in San Shou, Shuai Chou, and push hands competitions for fighting?

[GLW]

Actually, back about 10 or 12 years ago, BEFORE there was a huge schism between the Kuoshu folks and the USAWKF, a couple of people were asked to put together a southern and a northern TRADITIONAL routine.

I never saw the southern one but the northern one looked like a combination of Chaquan and Paoquan...with a very heavy dose of Tantui as the glue that held it all together.

The age of a routine has nothing to do with Traditional or Contemporary...and I can say that the northern WAS Traditional in approach, flow, flavor, power, AND definitely retained applications.

It went nowhere.

The different teachers either would not or could not step up to learn a single routine and agree to simply add it to their curriculum. The idea was that it would be used as a qualifier and then individuals who made it past qualifiers did their own traditional set....

TCMA folks preferred to argue.

[MightyB]

I didn't know that TCMA was so close to having enough organization to become a truly international sport.

GLW, do you know if the form survives and anybody who'd know it?

Also, who's in the lead, Kuoshu or USAWKF?

There's hope yet...

[Mortal1]

If You Could Do Wushu Long Fist Well, You Can Learn Any Traditional Form Easily.

[GLW]

The ORIGINAL intent of both the Kuoshu Federation and the USAWKF was to be a national body that organized CMA in the US and then interacted with international organizations and events in one voice.

The big schism occurrec - in part due to Huang Chienliang and Anthony Goh not working well together...but..should I say it, that conflict was at best a minor distraction.

The REAL issue was backing

The Kuoshu Federation, as if anyone did not know, is backed in large part by people in the ROC (Taiwan).

The IWuF is the PRC body for Contemporary Wushu.

Now, if you have an organization that supposedly supports Sanshou, Traditional CMA, and Contemporary Wushu (the idea of the USAWKF), you SHOULD be able to have a connection the the IWuF AND the Kuoshu people.

The Traditional Taolu rules COULD be made to be the same for both. The Sanshou rules could be used for Sanshou and the Kuoshu rules for Kushu events. Kuoshu did not really do any Contemporary Wushu so that was a non-issue...back then...

But the 50+ year old Kuomintang vs. Mao issue came up. Kuoshu heads in ROC said you can't be Kuoshu if you have anything to do with the PRC. The PRC folks didn't really care.

So, the ROC/PRC issue immigrated to the US and caused a major schism in the CMA arena.

Neither body is doing all that well.

There are no USAWKF regionals as there were before 1999. USAWKF has its Team Trials and its annual national event...that has gotten much smaller than the 600 - 700 competitors back in the pre-2000 days.

Kuoshu has a bit more events...supposedly...but they still have the single big thing sponsored by Huang.

It is more fractured than ever....and no real unifier or ANYTHING on the horizon.

As for the routine, I know who put it together...but they may have thrown away all notes and documents on it after it all fell apart.

[David Jamieson]

looks like contemporary wushu is gonna get it's face punchd in by an overweight xingyi prac named bubba. lol

there will always be a division between the gymnastic routine of modern wushu and combat effective martial art.

mma can't see the difference and just clumps it all into one pile.


most people because of the movies can't tell the difference between traditional kungfu and wushu.

wushu is an art form gymnastic dance with martial expression.

To modify it back into martially applicable would change it entirely.

a lot of flash, very little martial substance and frankly it wouldn't be any easier for a wushu athlete to learn combatr skills than anyone.

It's apples and oranges, ballet vs jiterbugging etc etc.

People who practice authentic chinese martial arts don't mind wushu being around, but they don't make the error of calling it a fighting art. lol

[Sifu Darkfist]

If You Could Do Wushu Long Fist Well, You Can Learn Any Traditional Form Easily.

movement means very little, try getting the modern wus shu expert to project the power in a baji one punch. Ba Ji Looks simple but perplexes even the best althletes including the gymnasts dubbed Wushu artists. Im sorry but YouKnowWho is right on target here.