Bak Hok Pai

[diego]

i learnt from my moms boyfriend then we had a falling out so we can say i learnt actual combat from the idiot!!!!!!!.

the guy who taught the methods name was alexander"kaido"pollintain,he was killed in a nightclub about 15 years ago,what i hear a wild dude.
thier is three main students the one who's video i have and one who stayed with us for a week and shot the fundamentals.
the guy in the video runs a acadeny in montreal,its my hopes to save enough $ to get out thier and learn the sparring method.His videos were shot in like 1980 and i emailed him he told me someone asked to borrow just to watch but now who knows how many people have copys....doesnt matter tho because you would need to personally be shown the fundamentals....and he just runs through them in a park for like 15 minutes...
he said originally kaido taught 44 combinations and 13 sets.....ten progressive study hand and kick forms.a staff and broadsword sets and the hard/soft set of hop ga wich im sure is the one in the video that starts off coilslow like taichi then mid way flurries into whipping technique.

what i was told was kaido learnt from "harry"ng-yim-ming and wc.wong"mantis?" and adriano emperado"kajukenbo".
but when i emialed the video student he said emperado highly respected kaidos technique but didnt personnally teach him,and he didnt know who wc wong was and the senior of ngyimmings sanfran school didnt recall seeing kaito there??
so im thinking either kaito put it together from methods he learnt from students of the main guys or because harry ng ming taught triad types in sanfran it mite be a underground school that he picked up somewhere........or people just dont want to talk i dont know????

so i dont think any of those sets are olschool classical tho some could be...but also they may be new kf made between 1950-70??????
LATE FOR WORK....gotta go

[Barefoot Mantis]

Hi Friday,

The Combined Hop-Gar Mantis DOES NOT claim to be the original Lion's Roar Pai, it IS from Chan-Fat-Fu's teachings though, and it contains some forms from his lineage. It's a development of that line and also Lee-Yin-Sing's Jook-Lum Pai. Yer know..
if you teach a combined system from TCMA roots and DON'T call it traditional you get told "That's just **** Pai", if you say IT IS from whatever PAI you get told "It isn't TCMA".
Very helpful eh...

From what I know of my Si-Fu, that system reflects his experience and learning and he don't amke ANY cliams at all beyond that.

Si-Gung Liu called it Si-Ji-Hao, as did his Si-Fu and his Sifu. That is how it was 'received' and in respect to them Si-Fu still calls his Tibetan hand 'Lion's Roar'. Si-Fu got the nick-name "Hop-Gar Man" in Liverpool 28 years ago cos even when a disciple to Hung-Gar Master Jimmy Chan-Wai he was always asked to demonstrate his Tibetan art at CNY and Kung-Fu demonstrations.

Si-Gung Liu, and Grandmaster Lee-Sun-Wah (LYS Jook-Lum) have 'OK'd' Si-Fu's combined teachings. They know that he still practices their original teaching and that he doesn't claim that his combined style is 'better' or anything like that.

I think that your Tibetan group is a great idea. I'll tell Si-Fu and also get some other UK contacts for you - White Crane and Hop-Gar.
I'll be in touch with you.

[Gum Gong]

I train Bak Hok,and Hop Gar.I would like to join this Tibetan MA community.My lineage comes from Chan Hak Fu/Ku Chi Wai.

[friday]

Hi Gum Gong,

Its great that you are interested. Send me your details, email address on the email: tibetanma@hotmail.com

:)

888

[friday]

Hi Barefoot Mantis,

Thanks for that, your help is really appreciated. :)
I have received your email, next time i speak to my sifu i will see if he is interested. I am sure some of my fellow kung fu bros will be.
Give my regards to your sifu.

:)

888

[HopGar]

Count me in as well. like I said before, I'm studying Hop Gar under Sifu Ku Chi Wai in ATL.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[friday]

Hey Barefoot Mantis,

I think its pretty good that your sifu's two sifus are ok with him teaching and having combined two different systems. i think it would be a great experience to see this lions roar mantis combined kung fu.

Me personally, have only studied Pak Hok Pai from two sifus aside from a little Choy Lee Fut when i was younger.

A sihing of mine studied praying mantis and also Pak Hok but have not combined the two. He is part of a martial arts association in the Philiopines.

anyway, enuff of this rambling. one day it would be good to meet up with u and compare the two tibetan mas.

:)

888

[Barefoot Mantis]

Hey Friday,

Don't know if you know anyone from grandmaster Ku-Chi-Wai's school? My Si-Fu REALLY rates him and his student kevin Kaley. I know Kevin has some Lion's Roar tapes (backyard stuff) from my Si-Fu - all informal but it's got forms and free san-sau on it. Heck, ya might even see me on 'em ! - eatin' cement that is!

My Si-Fu is really open, shares everything he's got with any interested martial artist. That means some people don't like him cos he's open and tells it how it is - he don't mind being wrong either, he's just glad to learn some more.

Si-Fu also knows Master Sam Kwok of Wing-Chun, disciple of Yip-Chun and Yip-Ching. Master Kwok is also Pak-Hok, from his uncle the late great Luk-Chi-Fu - he don't talk about it much, but I KNOW that Master Kwok really rates White Crane - he tends to keep it to himself - but has shared it with Si-Fu.

Which branch of Mantis was learned alongside White Crane?

Great to talk,

See ya soon friend!

[HopGar]

Don't know if you know anyone from grandmaster Ku-Chi-Wai's school? My Si-Fu REALLY rates him and his student kevin Kaley. I know Kevin has some Lion's Roar tapes (backyard stuff) from my Si-Fu - all informal but it's got forms and free san-sau on it. Heck, ya might even see me on 'em ! - eatin' cement that is!

- Dude, that's my school! Yeah he has tapes, he taped the class. You might see me on em in reality doin some punches..

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[diego]

""The traditional form of lau sing kuen (shooting stars form) comprises of around 200 techniques. Fei Hok Kuen 'flying crane fists' is a little less than that. These two forms make up the Pak Hok in/out step form. The reason why it was broken down to two sets was because the whole form in the one shot is over 300 techniques with each movement/technique with its own reference. My sifu has also shown how these two sets are combined together.""

could you give a basic rundown on those two sets,what type of physical skills would you get from say a consistent 2year-period study.
I have enough application to visualize and hit my bag until i can find another Professor....So im seeking the old school formulas to help my imagery in focus for my method --namsayn!!!.... :)

khong what type of skills and strentghs have you achieved since you started study.

barefoot-mantis:My teacher emhasises the seed punches and combinations, the tere-san waist power, twisting horse root power, 'chune-ging' and the four principles Chon, Chune, Jeet, Sim, plus two more: Lin-Wan and Fan (switching or reversing). ....Would you be so kind to put into lamemans english the dictionary referances to those formulas, and if you could give a basic example like agianst a r punch you can left lead leg shuffle outwars deflect/block above his elbow and horizontal fingerjab to soft spot in throat..and that would be like swarming!!.

can any of you guys ask your sifus to fill in the blanks behind the original footwork descriptions...In my book,hop gar kf by david chin, it says:
triangle"""quite obvious"""
4directions"""halfstep????"""
single flower
7star
pa-kua step
The 5 footwork patterns, named KAY-MEN-BO"the feetplay agianst every1 elses" derived from
JIKBOKLOTOW'S Mu-Fa-Jeong"in wich it states wong-yan-lam spent 11yrs to perfect it.I dont want to waste bandwidth so the 5 techs i have wich i think are the feetplay is on page 4 of this post..
take care

[Gum Gong]

Are you talking about Chit Yap Bo.That is the in/out kuen that I know of.What I heard is that Chan Hak Fu broke it down into 5 parts because none of his students could do the whole thing with the intensity and spirit that it deserved.I think what you guys are calling the shooting stars kuen is the same thing as the four meteor fists(Which were the origonal techniques that the Lamas taught the dub dub monks about 600 years ago)From what I understand Chit Yap Bo dates back 600 years.We call the 5 parts: charge set ,uppercut set,overhand set,fisthook set,and claw set but I honestly think that it's the same kuen that you guys are talking about.Just broken up differently.

We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet
our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass
away.

[diego]

.

[diego]

Chan Hak Fu broke it down into 5 parts because none of his students could do the whole thing with the intensity and spirit that it deserved.I think what you guys are calling the shooting stars kuen is the same thing as the four meteor fists(Which were the origonal techniques that the Lamas taught the dub dub monks about 600 years ago)From what I understand Chit Yap Bo dates back 600 years.We call the 5 parts: charge set ,uppercut set,overhand set,fisthook set,and claw set

DO YOU HAVE ANY ARTICLES YOU COULD SHARE ON THAT HISTORY...
EACH SECTION OF THE FIVE IS IT 5 sections and say the uppercut one is a bunch of uppercuts with varying feetplay... im on a need to no basis :)

[friday]

Hi everyone,

ok first of all, the Pak Hok Pai In/Out Step includes a variety of techniques. It contains all the basic punches (Luk Lik or six strengths), some grappling moves, blocks, takedowns, a few techniques with an internal aspect to it. It is usually the first fundamental form that is taught after completion of basics, and the six strengths form. This form is seen mainly as an external form.
There are a number of possible reasons for breaking down the in/out step into its 6 parts. I don't want to speculate on this but the reasons that I have heard about this is similar to the one already posted on this forum. that is it is too long people aren't able to perform the whole form etc especially in modern day society. Whatever the reasons, the six forms referred to as Jin Bo, Pao Bo etc (arrow punch form, uppercut form etc) make up in some way the in/out step. However, these 6 'parts' have additional moves, and greater repetitions in it of the move that the form is named. That is Jin Bo has more jin (arrow) punches. In short, if these 6 parts were combined together the final form would ultimately be larger than the in/out step. What is likely practice in these schools where the 6 parts are taught is that the 6 parts act as a small breakdown of the in/out step and acts as a way of easier introduction before the in/out step is taught. This mind u is merely speculation. You will have to ask your sifus.
what i can say is that the unbroken in/out step is very hard to perform from beginning to end at full power. performing the whole of lau sing keun is difficult enough. This is actually the reason why the original In/out step was broken up into its two parts (shooting star and flying crane fist forms).
As to the reason why it is called in/out step my guess is that the footwork comprises of moving in and out against your enemy. It contains evasive moves, penetrating attacks. I would be happy to find out as i don't want anyone to rely on my speculation:)

888

[friday]

Chert Yup Bo does take a while to master. Depending on your skill level, background, sifu it could take you two years to master. If you are able to master this form, the basics, six strengths, Tit Lin Keun (chain fist set)and another few forms, you will find that you will master later forms faster. It is important that these initial forms are comprehensively understood and practiced well. It forms the foundation of the whole Pak Hok Pai kung fu.

also somet hings i forgot to mention. the in/out step also includes elbow strikes, a few kicks, counter holds, bone breaking techniques, joint manipulation, clawing techniques, throat strikes, eye strikes. it is importnt to note it has no ground fighting.

cheers

888