MMA / NHB / TMA and Golden Age of MA

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by PLCrane
[i]I can think of a few reasons why they wouldn't want to do that. First of all, kungfu has been proven to be too dangerous for sport. In the 70's and 80's there were full contact kungfu tournaments, and the number of serious injuries was unacceptable. Consequently, the rules were changed.

That isnt because kung-fu is too deadly it is because when you get a whole bunch of amatuer fighters who train in different ways to get together and fight full contact people are going to get injured horribley. This is simply because people are going to be on entirely different levels. This is why fights between people who have never fought pro before need to be regulated.

[Shadow Dragon]

"Golden Age of MA".

Personally, I don't think that there is nor ever was a golden age of MA.

Current:
There are way too many frauds, wannabees, quick fix MA and so on now for it ever to be called the "Golden Age of MA".

Past:
If there ever was a Golden age of MA it still has to show it's ugly head.

For me the "Golden Age of MA" exist only
People's Head.

Yesterday, today and tomorrow it takes hard work to become good at MA.
And only a few exceptional people will really succeed and become "Masters".

Peace.

[MA fanatic]

PLcane: Where were all those tournaments held (the ones which showed the danger of Kung Fu)? There were a few mixed martial arts events sponsored by Araan Banks in the 70s, but no one got hurt. Were those competitions in China? That is what some masters would have you believe but never actually give you a place, date or sponsor. Were those events in the United States? What city? Who fought in them? Who was the sponsor? What were the rules? When were those tournaments held? Most martial arts historians in the United States would agree that it was only in 1993 that official "no rules" martial arts competitions originated and were sponsored by the Gracie family. I heard stories of other events (usually from people who were told by their instructor that he/she fought in them and hurt people), but no one could ever give any specifics as to where, when, and how they were held. lol
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

PLcane: Are you refering to those "blood and guts" competitions back in the 70s when Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, and Skipper Mullins (among others) competed (they were not full contact...those were point fighting tournaments where people gut hurt due to lack of control)? Or are you referring to "full contact karate age" when kick boxing was invented (they were not nhb events)? Please be more specific.
MA fanatic

[PLCrane]

I'm referring to the Kuoshu Federation tournements. I think the first one held outside of China was in Hawaii in 1980 or 81. I have friends who were there, and I've seen videos. I don't have a copy of the rules as they were then, but I didn't see any protective equipment - that came later. Nor do I know what kind of injuries were the most common. One of my friends was on ambulance duty, so I'll ask him.

[jimmy23]

also, what were the rules? Did they allow unfettered ground work? Kess, elbows, free clinch work?

[TaoBoy]

Great post, MA Fanatic.

Whilst I don't agree with the "Golden Age" statement, I still think this is a great time to be involved in MA. The one thing that we still need to get straight is the over-inflated ego of so many self-important MA practitioners. It seems Wu De is sadly lacking in modern MA. That said, I just caught a glimpse of my first Pride FC video and the guys in were humble and compassionate (outside the ring), and this is good to see! (Can someone explain how Renzo's elbow can get dislocated and the guy hardly flinches? Impressive!)

Just my $0.02.

[jimmy23]

if these tournaments are the ones Im thinking of (I belive that Su Dong Chen one one them at 17 years old) They allowed only three or four seconds of work in the clinch, no ground worrk, and throws from standing.

[straight blast]

"Who was the sponsor? What were the rules? When were those tournaments held? Most martial arts historians in the United States would agree that it was only in 1993 that official "no rules" martial arts competitions originated and were sponsored by the Gracie family"

"Most martial arts historians in the United States would agree that it was only in 1993 that official "no rules" martial arts competitions originated

Pardon me for I am about to be offensive. F*k me some Americans are so f*cking arrogant. Just because "martial arts historians" in America say it is so, then it must be. Maybe under the format suggested above with "Sponsors" . I'm sure that when Yip Man's students used to fight bareknuckle the first thing they were thinking about was who was going to sponsor the fight.

MA Fanatic I actually enjoyed your post. But please be aware that things actually happen outside the US that don't in any way conform to the US norm. I have fought in a few full contact tournaments. None of them were "sponsored". The "rules" were variable and agreed to by each fighter before their individual fights. And there was no media coverage or write up in a glossy magazine. Simply a case of different schools getting together to test each other in an informal, respectful manner. This was certainly pre 1993, and I think that the US MA historians might have missed us. And somehow I doubt we were the first.

Try to think outside the box just for a minute

Sorry. Rant ended now.

[jimmy23]

Outside of Brazil, though, there is no record of true MMA anywhere, period. Not that allowed unrestricted clench work and ground work. Ive seen foootage of some of the rooftop matches in Hong Kong, without exception when one guy wnet down the other let him getback up.

You need to get away from believing in things that youve never seen , nor has anyone else, like these mythical tournaments where people died because of the skills of the masters. As has been said, these were nowhere near true NHB.

[TaoBoy]

Excuse me for saying this but...

It's hard for any of us to say exactly what did/did not happen prior to the NHB comps we now know of (unless we were there). Obviously, people have been testing each other in matches of one type or another from day dot. Let's not get into arguments about specifics and just agree that the Gracies were the first and our generation won't be the last. Maybe things were done differently before UFC and Pride but they were still done.

Thanks for reading!

[David Jamieson]

There is no reason why a so called "traditional master" would or should not be able to prove his deadly skills in the NHB ring.

Just wanna jump in for the heck of it.
Anyway, I can think of all kinds of reasons. First thing that comes to mind is age. There are many traditional masters of kung fu who still teach their martial arts to a younger generation while they themselves are in their autumn years. There are others who are at master level in their martial arts who choose not to compete as it may be contrary to their personal philosopy.

One thing martial arts and artists shouldn't be is elitist.

Everyone can fight, most choose to do so in their so called "prime". Some people are adrenalin junkies and fight junkies and some really appreciate it for the science of it, so to speak. Still more practice martial arts for fun, health, fitness and to make new friends.

peace

[jimmy23]

" Let's not get into arguments about specifics and just agree that the Gracies were the first and our generation"

in our generation, thats what I should have said, and probably, (due to lack of documentation elsewhere) for the last 100 years or so

[Serpent]

The golden age of martial arts was before the invention of the gun. Since then it's all relatively academic.

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by Serpent
The golden age of martial arts was before the invention of the gun. Since then it's all relatively academic.

If that is true MOST TMA would never have known that olden Age.

Check your Chinese History of Inventions and their dates.
Acutally there was a good 3hr program last night on Discovery about the subject.

Peace