BT's Pakua

[Spirit Writer]

These last two are the best two posts you guys have ever laid down. Well said.

[Justa Man]

too bad they love to lie about things to prove their cause.

[Walter Joyce]

BT and Maoshan,

I agree with SW about the high quality of your last posts. Without knowing the history of the attacks and meetings, your bellicose posts were hard to reconcile with your claimed skills. Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I still believe that martial artists should be humble, especially when skilled.

However, after learning that your posts were part of an ongoing RL battle, and not just words, it was a lot easier to understand. Not that either of you (BT or Maoshan) need me to understand, or my approval.

I always agreed with your approach to Ba Gua, it is a fighting art first and foremost, and should be trained as such. That aspect of your posts I never disagreed with.

On a side note, I would like to try and make the upcoming tournament, but will have to see. I have a family, and the attendant responsibilities.

Regards,
Walter

p.s. if you guys ever want an editor, what you have to say shouldn't be lost or miscontrued because of the way you write. Its the way you think that counts, and you seem to have that part down.

[Stai-Nyce]

J/M
Can you please expound on your knowledge of their lies.

you can't horde info like that!

[Justa Man]

No I can't. Would it matter anyway? Anyone can lie no matter how skilled, or well spoken or educated they seem on this board.

People who are secure in what they know is truth don't need to strive very hard to prove it.

Kiddies on this board love sensationalism, love stories, and love gossip. I'm not going to feed it. Certain people do a great job of doing that without my help.

No more words from me.
Say what you will and keep the flame strong.

[blacktaoist]

Justa Man

No I can't. Would it matter anyway? Anyone can lie no matter how skilled, or well spoken or educated they seem on this board.

You can't answer Stai-Nyce question,because for one you don't know me, and two I have nothing to lie about. You claim I'm lying. Ok tell me and everybody up here know what I'm lying about. What's the matter you don't like what I said about your teacher Park Ba Gua method.

Now if anybody is lying to people (books and articles)about things to prove their cause Its Park. Not me or my classmate. We already prove he was lying a few times. But to tell you the truth I can careless what you think Justa Man or about what Park' Bok Nam is doing. I never did.

But if people ask me question about his method, After all this is a talk forum right? I'm going to tell them my true opinion, base on my experience encountering with many that train in his method. And like I said the people I met that train in his method was $hit. Truth is truth have nothing to do with lying.

Like I said before, I'm willing to back up my words, are you? I'll let my palms do the talking and my feet do the walking. (stepping and Kicking ass to the best of my skill level) Like I said I don't care about Park or his style, the bottom line is I spar any of these so called Renowned Ba Gua Zhang masters. Why? Because thats just how I get down.

So as far all these claims of park and other renowned Ba Gua Zhang masters being so high level and all, all that $hit is a Myth in my eyes. But I'm willing to spar any of these Masters to see and explore better Ba Gua techniques of kicking ass. And if I get my ass kick why try to test them, then its all good. The best way to learn a Ba Gua technique is to feel some one applying it on you. (getting your ass kick feeling that contact is what its all about.)

I'm all for getting my ass kick by a Ba gua Master, if thats what they are. And the best why to find out if some one is good, is sparring them. Know loking at forms and one step fighting techniques. My disposition is nothing new, many Ba Gua Zhang Masters would fight all the time to demonstrate their fighting skill.

Yin Fu, Cheng T'ing Hua, Ma Wei Chi, Ma Kuei, and even Cheng Yu Lung...ect...ect..ect.. All of these Ba Gua Zhang practitioners taught the old ways(real combat) They didn't practice Ba Gua as a flowery martial art. Theses mother****ers was straight up killers. (I know right now they looking down , and saying look at these fools reading about us and the I-ching. Thats not the way , they should be practicing and freefighting. What Fools.)

If we are giong to talk about Ba Gua Master of the past, if you step to them and wanted to test their skills, these Ba gua Masters was all game. What Ba Gua Master today that is World-Renowned can put mother****ers on they ass like these past masters. Not Many."

But you have some that claim they can, so I see no problem in me finding out. But you have people up here On KFO that see it as a problem, because they themself don't have what it takes, or any belief in their own Ba Gua Zhang fighting Skills. Why? because they don't practice Ba Gua zhang for real, they always be a slave of FEAR."

Because of this fear, they will continue to believe in a falsehood because they was afraid to evaluate the other person skill Level that is in question.

Bottom line is, most Ba Gua people fear instability, therefore it is natural for them to resist the destruction of their old belief system until they have an acceptable belief system to replace the old one.

But this all come down to who you are, just like I said before. Most Ba gua Zhang in my opinion is $hit, but thats just my opinion.

Other styles of martial arts, have many good fighters from their fighting systems, that will put up if you ask to test their skills. But in Ba Gua zhang, not many will put up, because most are just living in a imaginary world of Ba gua mythology I-Ching trigram symbol fighting. What a joke when I hear these individuals post this information as Ba Gua knowledge for fighting. Then many you wonder why other Chinese martial artist see the internal methods as a joke.

Because what they see is fake mother****ers talking about nothing of any practical use. No one wants to hear about lineage, but thats all you see most of the time up here on KFO. Fake Lineage heads up here on KFO talking like they have real knowledge. Whats fascinating about the whole thing is these dumb ass's are not even of chinese descent, but they talk about past Ba gua Zhang masters as if they were their ancestors or one of they own family. And they say I look at to many kung fu movies.

If anyone need to stop looking at kung Fu moves, its all these Ba gua history Lineage heads UP HERE ON KFO. they should make a Ba Gua movie, because all they good for is telling a good story about a past BA Gua Master, that most of the time the information on these Ba Gua master skill level is not conforming to fact or truth. Storys of mother****ers jump in the air ten feet..light skill, mother****ers get hit and fly back ten feet,,,,ect...ect...ect.. THE BA GUA GREAT MYTH OF HIGH LEVEL SKILL, I HAVE NOT MET ONE TEACHER THAT CAN DO ANY SUPER POWER BA GUA $HIT YET. BUT ACCORDING TO BA GUA LEGEND MANY OF THE BA GUA MASTER COULD DO SOME EXTRAORDINARY $HIT."

But today all you see is fakes trying to act like they are so real with their Ba Gua Zhang. They all try to act like that have the most knowledge of ba Gua Zhang or their teacher is the best, even if they themself never crosshands with the man. These individuals think, that having knowledge of past ba Gua masters lineage , knowledge of I-ching is going to make them high level fighters.

Just take a look up here on KFO, and you see I tell you no lie. All you hear is this past Ba Gua said this , that past Ba Gua master Skill was fierce...ect...ect....ect.

But not one of these posters are talking about anything practical. Many of them worship some renowned Ba Gua Zhang teachers like they are God of something. And some of the Ba Gua Zhang teachers these poster, have post information about on KFO I met, and I tell you there is nothing exceptional about some of these Ba Gua teachers some of the posters are talking about.

But hey, thats how the game is play in the 2002 world of Ba Gua zhang. Keep $hit real fake.

But in the end, Nothing stay the same , even the fake must change to real. Soon or later, people are going to want the real thing, its just a matter of time.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

[Stai-Nyce]

you say B/T and Maoshan lie $%!# i wanna know.
you got dirt dish it.
but don't bull$hit the board like you keeping Secret Squirrel information.

I hate people with little rap quotes like that $hit makes you real.
You say $hit be prepared to back it up.

[Brad]

Kiddies on this board love sensationalism, love stories, and love gossip. I'm not going to feed it. Certain people do a great job of doing that without my help.

You just did feed it.

too bad they love to lie about things to prove their cause

It's pretty rediculous to call someone a liar without anything to back it up, then claiming you're taking the high road.

[SevenStar]

Question...

I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps, But since you will spar anyone, why not invite Park himself to your tourney? That would settle alot more than beating a few of his students. If I wanted to prove that chen taiji was ineffective, I wouldn't challenge one of his schools, I'd challenge either Chen or his son. If I wanted to prove shuai chiao was ineffective, I'd go after david lin or john wang - you get the point.

[blacktaoist]

Man I said what I have to say, So there is no need for me to keep going over this Bull$hit about Park. They now where to find me. Thats all to it. sept 28 2002. I be there.


As for david lin, man are you for real.

[maoshan]

Justa man,

Another sucker with no face. Who are you man? And what lies have we told? Talk about grasping at straws.
You Call us liers, yet you and yours hide behind your PC"s and post all kinds of fantastic **** about yourselves and your chosen diety. We've always proven our ****, both physically and historically. You just proved how foul you and your crew are.

You have nothing left to fall back on so you call us liers and try and play it off like all we've been about is a fallicy.
Our security is just fine my man. Secure in the fact that what we are learning is real and exact.
Also we wern't trying to prove it to y'all at all, we just stated facts. It was your people who wanted proff of what we were talking about. and they got it. can't handle it.
Task, Sucks to be you!


Walter Joyce,

(I still believe that martial artists should be humble, especially when skilled)

Before I begin on this Thanks for your comments.
Humility is a matter of degree.
If I understand where your comming from the humility of which you speak is for the practitioner who never plans to use it beyond a self-defense situation. That's cool, there have been plenty of high level practitioners that lived that way and for them it was truly personal. but thats one type of man.
My brother and I live in the world of Martial arts and in that world you have to put up or shut up. as can be seen from my brothers post, you can't get experiance being a wall flower.
We're in the thick of it. mastery is our goal. This is no hobby for us. Our humility is researved for those who have earned it, namely
our teachers and masters that endured the hardship of true training and made it and are here now to pass it on. as we too in turn will pass it on.
We've been marked with this brand because we chose to relate our own abilities in making our points. What you need to understand is that we are still learning. What we've got is nothing yet compared to what we want.
What we've been doing is trying to give those that really want to learn a few keys to getting there. It's not our fault these fools don't train, But they get offended that we do. Go look in the mirror.
Because we will fight and stand behind our contention we are not humble I disagree with that. but it's your opinion. So be it.

But back to Justa man and a point my brother made me think of in his post.
About Lineage:
For those that ride the lineage boat, Check this out,
You want to make these claims about your lineage, O.K.
Do you represent the master of your lineage? Are you keeping his standard? If not shut up. Number one, he's turning in his grave.
two, you need to be ashamed of yourself. My brother and I Represent and it shows. What have you got? Unless your training hard you need to keep your lineage to your self. because you diss the Master as well as your self by yelling to the universe you are of such and such lineage.


SevenStar,

(I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps,)

Yes you do. I mean Unless you just went down to what we said, and that doesn't make any sense, How do you know what's going on? I've already written in three different threads what the problem is and I'm not going to repeat it suffice to say that they started it, and we give better then we get.

As far as Park goes,
Park is fully aware of whats going on, 6 of his students were beaten terribly as if they had never learned Martial Arts before and thats bad considering that some of them have been learning for years. It's bad for his rep. Novell is a student now, what's your point?
and David Lin? We've already been there. come again.

Maoshan

[count]

but there are 2 David Lin's. I don't think sevenstar means the same one you guys do.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by maoshan



SevenStar,

(I don't really know what all the hate is about between you and Park's camps,)

Yes you do. I mean Unless you just went down to what we said, and that doesn't make any sense, How do you know what's going on? I've already written in three different threads what the problem is and I'm not going to repeat it suffice to say that they started it, and we give better then we get.

Actually, I don't know about it. I was in a chat room one night and heard some people talking about BT's tourney and also about Park. I know you guys post here, and I clicked on this thread.

As far as Park goes,
Park is fully aware of whats going on, 6 of his students were beaten terribly as if they had never learned Martial Arts before and thats bad considering that some of them have been learning for years. It's bad for his rep. Novell is a student now, what's your point?

My point is that instead of fighting people that were trained by the man, you should fight the man himself. If one of Park's guys beat you, does that mean they are better than BT and his teachers?

[kyle]

maoshan

My intention is not to debate you,for I am not one of Park students,simply trained with park for a few years and know some of them.

This is just a view from a different perspective.

I feel deeply sorry for those who believe in what you guys write here about Park,they are missing the boat.

One thing is to have an opinion,another is to lie pretending to be a victim of an attack,for this offense a student could be kick out of a school.

SHAME ON YOU,YOU ARE A LIER,that is willing to do or say anything to get publicity and be known,keep on going while you have time,soon all these people that believe your lies will know who you really are.

YOU DEFEATED 6 STUDENTS LOL,that attacked you,please now you are also a victim,please.

I know the first 3 guys,you didn't have no fight,it was a FRIENDLY EXCHANGE of info and technics among students,(fools litlle did they know they will be meeting characters like you) they were not sent to you by Master Park,in fact these are students from one of Park's instructors in NJ.
This was voluntary,later you turned all this **** into a war of words and speculations to gain publicity and further your cause

NAME THE OTHER TWO STUDENTS,PLACE AND DATE,never heard of that incident and seriously doubt it that ever happen.

In fact you are contradicting yourself,you already passed judgment on the Master and his students,why then do you want them to prove their skills,who the **** are you to judge?.

Only your teacher can judge your MA.

Altough among your many illnesses you also suffer from DELUSION (seen Park's students everywere).

You guys were learning from Park's book not long ago,like many others,even try to get private instruction from him and he refused to teach you,like many other well known teachers,this must be the reason of your attacks,poor soul,you feel rejected and now you are seeking revenge.

He is not the only one and I dont blame him who would like to be associated with punks like you.

It doesn't make sense,does it?,here we have,the historian,researchers,investigators,warrior scholars Pa Kua experts,that know it all ,travel the four directions of the earth,interviewed and study many well known masters of the last 20 years and somehow they missed Master Park,

How come?,the BlackT never went to check him out in person?.
Even now after all this diarrea of words and accusation.

As I said before talk is cheap,actions very painful,if you guys never met a high level teacher?,you know the adress in VA,what are you waiting for? stop enbarrasing yourselfs.

[StaggerLee]

planetwc,

>>"If none of his guys are pro fighters, what is in it for them to take some physical damage from you in this day and age?" <<

>>"Show up to their jobs all busted up?<<

You make some great points.However if you do show up to work with a black eye-- the ole webbing in my baseball glove broke while playing catch line--is usually convincing enough.