Is Wing Tsun Leung Ting the best branch of wing chun?

[yuanfen]

Texas chili?Ugh... specially with frijoles- mas ugh ugh!
The best chilis in the US are grown in and around Hatch, New Mexico.Mi amigo- Tejas chili con frijoles is good only for jet propulsion west where they really californicate chili. ugh ugh ugh. For cooking it los indios in nuevo mexico and arizona(Pueblos and O'Othams) make supremo chili. Si.

[red5angel]

from what I have seen and experience WT is far from the best. Its very external. What I found odd was that while visiting a school they claimed to be able to teach small people to fight but all the small people were getting their butts kicked by the bigger people hands down, including the instructor! They had all sorts of "neato" drills and stuff though, looked very "fun". Oh yeah and they could teach me to fight effectively against 90% of attackers in the first 9-10 months, whatever that means.

[tiger_1]

w.t. are future in wing chun kung fy style ? are in that oppinion have place for all three lineages of wing chun style of kung fu ? are w.t. - of leung t. its kung fu with that many mutations inside in texnic and onthers ? or some derivat of w.c. ? are there have kung fu spirit and road of progres or w.t. of leung t. without "beimo of w.c.l. " its just fine street fight ? - just friendly tiger_1

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Texas chili?Ugh... specially with frijoles- mas ugh ugh!
The best chilis in the US are grown in and around Hatch, New Mexico.Mi amigo- Tejas chili con frijoles is good only for jet propulsion west where they really californicate chili. ugh ugh ugh. For cooking it los indios in nuevo mexico and arizona(Pueblos and O'Othams) make supremo chili. Si.

Finally, a worthy topic on which we disagree.

Yuanfen, I've seen you make that claim before about the chilis around Hatch. I disagree, California has the best. Likely New Mexico got theirs from us, but not the varieties.

As for Texas, you're right of course. Do you remember LBJ's gruel that he used to pass off as chili? Nuff said. But, back on the subject of BBQ, California still leads. Heck, in Texas, I've been served BBQ with "BBQ sauce." That's amateur stuff. The best BBQ starts with the best marinade, which naturally gives us more enlightened Californians the lead.

Regards,

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by red5angel
from what I have seen and experience WT is far from the best. Its very external. What I found odd was that while visiting a school they claimed to be able to teach small people to fight but all the small people were getting their butts kicked by the bigger people hands down, including the instructor! They had all sorts of "neato" drills and stuff though, looked very "fun". Oh yeah and they could teach me to fight effectively against 90% of attackers in the first 9-10 months, whatever that means.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2218456.stm

Jedi Knight is the religion of 70,000 Australians.

Jedi Knight is even being included on the list of religions by UK census authorities.

Congratulations. You're not alone anymore.

[red5angel]

John W I have never been alone, just one of the few. I think you should stick with chili my friend.

[UltimateFighter]

To be honest, most styles of wingchun have a lot of corruption. WT has split into two, the EMBAS organisation is basically taking over America. WT is essentially Wing Chun evolved. There is a place for restraints and some grapplling. I am interested in what the US bracnh of WT does, without lat sau?

[red5angel]

"WT is essentially Wing Chun evolved."

Sounds too much like WT propoganda to me Ultimatefighter, what do you mean? Are you talking about the focus on grappling?

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by red5angel
John W I have never been alone, just one of the few. I think you should stick with chili my friend.

And I think you should stick with your fantasy of being a Jedi Knight. As I told your soulmate, Rolling Hand, don't ever change.

[Tristan]

Oh yeah, we don't do the lat sao in the States any more. Just the "Traditional" methods here. I'm not sure what I think of it yet, but that's where I'll have to rely on the experience and wisdom of my Sifu and Sigung.

The "traditional methods" also uses "lat sao". But it differs from the made up stuff by Kernie. Latsao is practiced in the higher programms (technician) to applicate the chisao sections you learned before.
Think you´re not that far yet, just wait and see...

T.

[red5angel]

Hmmmm...Dont know if this helps but the EBMAS school I visited in Minneapolis about 2 months ago was using Lat sao, or some version of it anyway.

[jweir]

I would absolutely agree that Leung Ting's Wing Tsun is the best. It seems completely obvious to me, especially since I've been doing it for 5 years and I've never tried another lineage. I don't understand why it's not obvious to all of the WC people who are clearly just jealous of WT's success and obvious superiority. In case you didn't see it, this paragraph was a joke. Do not reply to it as if I just insulted you.

Seriously though UltimateFighter, you have to look at the school as well as the lineage. I've met WC people from good lineages, and some of them knew there stuff quite well. I've also met some people from lineages that were so far removed from any decent sifu that the students never had a chance of getting a solid WC foundation. I've visited four other WT schools. Three of them were teaching horrible stuff and one of them was absolutely wonderful. If WT is taught badly, it sucks, but when it is taught well, it's as good as any lineage can be. So is it the best? Yes, but only if your Si-fu has his sh*t together. Which school do you train at?

Right now the Leung Ting branch in the US is changing a lot. For one thing, the three crappy WT schools I visited are no longer in the organization. The curriculum has also changed to put a lot more emphasis on softness and the basic principles. The EWTO lat sau program has also been de-emphasized or removed altogether.

[UltimateFighter]

Originally posted by red5angel
"WT is essentially Wing Chun evolved."

Sounds too much like WT propoganda to me Ultimatefighter, what do you mean? Are you talking about the focus on grappling?

Hey, I am definately NOT one who buys into propaganda. I hate to say it, but WT is full of propaganda in their efforts to expand. The split with EBMAS has hit the organisation hard.

From my experience however and discounting propaganda, when I say 'Wing Chun evolved' I mean that WT is a development of traditional Wing Chun. It is less "mechanical". Training is street orientated. Yes, part of this is the emphasis on grappling. When you realise that the joint head of the system and 10th level master Kernspecht is a former Freestyle submission wrestler, of course WT will be more grappling orientated than other branches. Grappling is a HUGE part of fighting. But it is not just that. 'Evolved' in that the emphasis is on street defence. Links to Special forces groups means WT has had the input to discover what works and what doesn't. That is why some of the old 'lap-sau' drills from WC were thrown out in WT, because they were deemed ineffective training drills.

When I look at some branches where they don't even teach a hook punch, I think to myself that that is not a practical fighting system. WT could be improved further however. They should do more sparring.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by UltimateFighter

Hey, I am definately NOT one who buys into propaganda. I hate to say it, but WT is full of propaganda in their efforts to expand. The split with EBMAS has hit the organisation hard.

No kidding.

From my experience however and discounting propaganda, when I say 'Wing Chun evolved' I mean that WT is a development of traditional Wing Chun. It is less "mechanical". Training is street orientated.

Yip Man Wing Chun puts its emphasis on precision, structure, position, sensitivity, and power. This is less mechanical than the WT approach. So called street orientation just allows for sloppy techniques.

Yes, part of this is the emphasis on grappling. When you realise that the joint head of the system and 10th level master Kernspecht is a former Freestyle submission wrestler, of course WT will be more grappling orientated than other branches.

More propaganda. What does this business of granting themselves "nth" level master titles have to do with skill levels?

Grappling is a HUGE part of fighting.

Only among grapplers. In Yip Man Wing Chun, it is not emphasized because it is not needed and not often effective against a real fighter.

But it is not just that. 'Evolved' in that the emphasis is on street defence. Links to Special forces groups means WT has had the input to discover what works and what doesn't. That is why some of the old 'lap-sau' drills from WC were thrown out in WT, because they were deemed ineffective training drills.

DEVOLVED to street fighting. As for the lap sao drill being ineffective, any drill taught incorrectly would be ineffective training. I have seen Emin do lap sao and it appeared effective, or does he belong to a different branch of WT from you? Perhaps he missed the memo that lap sao doesn't work.

When I look at some branches where they don't even teach a hook punch, I think to myself that that is not a practical fighting system. WT could be improved further however. They should do more sparring.

Trying to do hooks against good Yip Man Wing Chun is a sure way to lose. Please continue to advocate them. As for sparring, how many years of paying club dues does a WT student have to have before they get to chi sao, let alone sparring?

[UltimateFighter]

Originally posted by John Weiland
[B]No kidding.
[B]Yip Man Wing Chun puts its emphasis on precision, structure, position, sensitivity, and power. This is less mechanical than the WT approach. So called street orientation just allows for sloppy techniques.
[B]
Only among grapplers. In Yip Man Wing Chun, it is not emphasized because it is not needed and not often effective against a real fighter.
[B]DEVOLVED to street fighting. As for the lap sao drill being ineffective, any drill taught incorrectly would be ineffective training. I have seen Emin do lap sao and it appeared effective, or does he belong to a different branch of WT from you? Perhaps he missed the memo that lap sao doesn't work.
Trying to do hooks against good Yip Man Wing Chun is a sure way to lose. Please continue to advocate them. As for sparring, how many years of paying club dues does a WT student have to have before they get to chi sao, let alone sparring?

Unfortunately, your comments prove you have never been in a real fight and know very little about real martial arts. Grappling is involved in all fights. It doesn't matter what style you do, grappling will take place. If you don't believe me, watch the supposed top Yip man student William Cheung grappling and rolling around the floor with Emin Boztepe, before Emin kindly elbowed him into submission (from a mount position on the ground). You really are going to be in for a big wakeup call if you ever get into a fight, much less with a wrestler or Judo practioner........
As for hooks- Yip man taught hooks, so what is your problem with them?

And I started Chi -sau within 4 months of training WT. Maybe if you get to my level one day you will realase that it is not how much you learn, it is how you apply what you have learned that counts.