Is Wing Tsun Leung Ting the best branch of wing chun?

[lawrenceofidaho]

just a little uncorrected as the guys with no sash on looked the same as the guys with colored sashes and the techniques just looked stiff, more like blocking than reacting and deflecting if thats the right image to give

Something else thing one might consider.......

We know that real fights are rough, chaotic, & unpredictable. They do not look anything like the fights shown in kung fu movies........ Similarly, the more realistic (and hence, applicable) a drill is, the more "uncorrected" and wild it is likely to look.

If a school mostly trains drills that are: pretty to look at, choreographed, or predictable, where everything flows smoothly all the time, -I'd have to wonder how much fighting skill they're actually imparting to their students. (Probably not much.)

-Lawrence

[lawrenceofidaho]

I've yet to find a lineage that does not get criticism!

Good for all of us to remember.......

[AdrianUK]

LawrenceofIdaho

I always worked Drills as attribute development for timing and response, it just provides a framework to work within, if thats uncontrolled and wild surely you lose the attribute training in the chaos ? I am not saying this as a fact, its a question, I have always worked drills through levels of progression from the basic drill for attributes through to expanding the drill to try and incorporate it into basic free sparring. The thing I am trying to avoid in looking around is to view everything through WT glasses, but its hard to get an explanation of why things are different (better?) done the other way in the context of a class. Since there seems to be no mass migration amongst the wing chun community to one lineage I guess it means no ones better, or we are all easily satisfied !

Regards,
Adrian

[lawrenceofidaho]

Since there seems to be no mass migration amongst the wing chun community to one lineage I guess it means no ones better, or we are all easily satisfied !

People stay with different lineages for a variety of reasons, but unfortunately, we humans are creatures of habit, and often allow ourselves to remain in less-than-ideal situations merely because they're familiar to us, and percieved as somehow less "threatening" than venturing into "the unknown" on our own.

-Lawrence

[AdrianUK]

LawrenceOfIdaho

To be honest, part of the reason I stuck with the EWTO so long was because the why of what we did made sense to me and the few other classes I could see looked "different" and therefore I guess I decided not to risk spending time in them to find they were not as good. Luckily forums like this give you perspective on the whys and hows and give you more of an informed choice before you sign away your time, I just wish there was more get togethers to get a flavour of the other methods. Anyway everyone have a great christmas and new year

Adrian

[Jam_master]

Ok. I'm also learnig the LT WT system here in Austria (with lat sao) and i like it very much, but what i don't like is, that a lot of people who are doing WT think, there is nothing beside WT.
And most of them haven't ever tried other lineages/styles.

so my opinion - you have to be proud of your style/lineage, but don't be arrogant about others.

so long ciao


WTJune

Well said WTJune! But to bad it will still fall on deaf ears. LOL Some people just want to be right or be acknowledged as such at all cost.

[zooki]

Is there anyone who has experience of Sifu Emins Wing Chun, and that of Ip chun lineage??

Currently i study Wing chun which is very traditional.. Soft.. and having seen videos of Emin it seems a lot more street orientated.

[praecox]

3)...Quite a few members of this forum do know the complete system.

...what about Chi Gerk?


best

j

[bcbernam777]

Most people who I have talked to seem to be of this opinion. Actually, many of the top instructors in WT are former WC instructors who have joined the organisation. I myself train WingTsun and find the sylabus and evolution of this branch of style the best of all I have seen. Being the biggest Wing chun/Tsun organisation on the planet means that there is a huge development in this style, and it is very street orientated. Of course, all branches of wing chun have something to offer, but you only have time to train in a particular branch and aim to perfect it, and for me, Leung ting WT is the best branch of wing chun that exists. They seem to be the only one that covers all ranges from grappling to anti-ground fighting, whilst sticking to wingtsun principles rather than including wrestling or BJJ for example. I think WT is the future.

no its not

[Vajramusti]

I think WT is the future.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that were true- it would be indeed bleak. Fortunately, there are folks who pay little heed to marketing.

joy chaudhuri

[tjwingchun]

Is there anyone who has experience of Sifu Emins Wing Chun, and that of Ip chun lineage??

Read the first three pages of this thread before jumping to the last page as it seemed to be getting pointless.

I know something of Yip Chun's Wing Chun, I am the most Senior practicing student of Master Samuel Kwok, I have been training in Wing Chun since 1974 and a professional instructor in Sifu's organisation since 1983, I have known Sigung Yip Chun personally from 1985 when he began yearly seminar tours of the Uk and I would travel around the country with Sifu and Sigung to these events. At the opening of the Yip Man Tong (Museum), Sigung introduced me as "Master Trevor" onstage, and he respects my Chi Sau also. Yet I do things my way not his, as we are different sizes, ages and mentality, but I will try to answer any questions that you have about his methods.

As far as this thread is concerned and how it started, I have the greatest respect for Keith Kernspetch, though I have not had the chance to meet him, from what I have read he seems honest and knowledgeable in his Wing Chun/Tsun, (looks the same to me when written in Chinese!), but I draw the line with Leung Ting as from the start he did not tell the truth about his background and relationship with Yip Man, as has been said 'history' will tell all; and though I can respect his business acumen and organisational abilities, when I look back at what he was teaching at the start of WT it was lacking structure, energy and understanding of reality, what I see now in WT via Masters Kernspetch, Boztepe(who I have heard many good reports about, (a fighter and a gentleman), and other practical WT Instructors bears little resemblance to the early stuff and has developed in isolation from Leung Ting.

In my mind the future of Wing Chun will be a distillation of all the methods now on offer, developing a single essence of knowledge and understanding, using theoretical and practical biomechanics to explain how individuals can defend themselves in violent confrontations and then make their own choices in personalising their training methods, where the politics will be replaced with freindship and pride with humility.

Then I again I am a dreamer with still much to learn myself.

Take care and keep smiling TJ

[AmanuJRY]

In my mind the future of Wing Chun will be a distillation of all the methods now on offer, developing a single essence of knowledge and understanding, using theoretical and practical biomechanics to explain how individuals can defend themselves in violent confrontations and then make their own choices in personalising their training methods, where the politics will be replaced with freindship and pride with humility.

This is an idealistic view...a good one, of which I share.

...but not very realistic, unfortunately man's vanity and desire to 'legacy-build' leads to elitism and segregation, instead of integration and propaganda and disinformation ensue...

[tjwingchun]

Not as idealistic or fanciful as you might imagine AmanuJRY, as personally I view Wing Chun as a science, simply the understanding of applied body mechanics related to violent confrontations and as such open to discussion at the highest level of theoretical as well as practical study.

If we can create a perfect form without personality, only references to body structure and geometry, and research the concepts and fundemental principles of application, backed with understanding of the learning processes and accept the knowledge that reality defies constraints.

Wing Chun the martial science will grow so that in a few hundred years there will be one way, while Wing Chun the martial art will still have the echoes of "Our way is the best", science cannot be denied and evolves, the arrogance of the artist will remain as they never believe any words that highlight their lack of talent, ask any bunch of cults.

Take care and keep smiling TJ

[AmanuJRY]

Not as idealistic or fanciful as you might imagine AmanuJRY...

On the contrary, it's probably more idealistic than I imagine (as if you even have a clue what I imagine)...and I said nothing of fancifulness.

If we can create a perfect form without personality, only references to body structure and geometry, and research the concepts and fundemental principles of application, backed with understanding of the learning processes and accept the knowledge that reality defies constraints.

If...is a big word in this case.

Wing Chun the martial science will grow so that in a few hundred years there will be one way,

In a few hundred years Wing Chun may not even be nessisary or may even be a blip in history.

science cannot be denied and evolves,

Science can be denied and has since time can remember. And, yes even the most prolific minds are subject to prejudice and eventually fail to evolve - i.e. Einstein vs. Quantum theory.

Take care and keep smiling TJ

Thank you, I always do...

[tjwingchun]

I accept my inability to know your imagination as I would fear for those whose mind worked like mine and the medication they would need.

The big "IF", what I have been working toward for the last 15 years or so is the explanation of the basic forms related to simple body mechanics, and defined by geometrical positions, verticals, horizontals, right angles, parallels etc, that remove the personality out of the form, so they are not "Do it like ME!", but "understand this from this"

The concepts and principles involved condensed into commonsense statements, that can be easily understood and applied by anyone setting their own parameters of use, with something that is so obvious and simple it can be used in many ways.

Wing Chun will be around for a long time to come, though this is just MY vision, I see it taking over to become the predominant SELF DEFENCE system, a martial SCIENCE as opposed to ART, objective rather than subjective, a hobby that offers more than just self-protection but the fascination of how we interact with each other via Chi Sau, who many like me call 'physical chess'.

All the other styles will still be around as they have great value and traditions that will maintain the interest in them hopefully.

I repeat however that science cannot be denied, the fact that scientific statements are constantly denied and require repeatable studies so that their theories are accepted, are the proof. Science is the process not the resulting hypothesis.

The Einstein/Quantum discussion is still all in the theory side of things not like the Newtonian mechanics Laws. Science is simply the best excuse for how we think things work, which is why to say the comment "Leung Ting Wing Tsun is the best Wing Chun in the world" cannot stand up to honest discussion and is more a statement of prejudice than incontrovertible fact.

Hope your smiles are as wide as your imagination and as often as your questions, lol.

Take care and keep TJ