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Thread: Is Wing Tsun Leung Ting the best branch of wing chun?

  1. #61

    AndrewS

    No offence, but it was stated on his own website (ebmas) that he (sifu Emin Boztepe) never learned the pole and the knives. Now I canīt find it anymore (probably taken off), but I was not the only one who have read this. The weapon matter regarding to sifu Emin was extensively discussed on the German forum. On wich everybody agreed he was never thought the WT-weapons. This was also made claer by several letters from Emin written to Kernspecht wich were publicated on the EWTO website.

    Nevertheless, I think sifu Emin is a great M.A. who has done more for the EWTO than the ETWO itself is aware off.

    T.
    Last edited by Tristan; 09-03-2002 at 12:05 AM.

  2. #62
    Tristan,

    my understanding is that sifu did not learn the knives from Leung Ting. Long pole on the other hand he knows, learned within the system, and was incidentally accused of demonstrating on one of the escrima tapes. The stories of sifu spending 3-4 hrs at a time performing the preparatory exercises for long pole date back to my start in WT in '94. Moreover, sifu Emin has received instruction in long pole from Leung Ting on a number of occasions since I've been out in LA- and a significant number of hours at that. I wandered by that on a couple of occasions and gracefully made my exit (a *painful* exercise in etiquette given my insatiable curiousity).

    Later,

    Andrew

  3. #63

    ANDREW SIMON MEYER [lol] THATZ MY HERO

    yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnn SIMON wuzz the POPE in my skool i liked him learned alot we [meNwife] were being taght by SI HING MARk [good man] .SI HING PAUL n GERALD were teaching the Berkeley school it was to big so we did the Oakland School SImon i liked..LOOK
    DREW....
    itz not just the $ itz the tyme me and Buddah Fist hooked up n it's like i can't even do THAT as much as i want to [i'll call u BF] got a kid uknow? what works for me is hooking up with different folks n sharryn n sparryn
    i learned alot at the WT and i respect it 3000% just don't have the tyme yu know???

    PEACEnRESPECT

    TRON
    olskoolpopper

  4. #64
    Tron,

    Simon has his good and bad points. I've generally had good experiences dealing with him, and have a fair amount of respect for his technical skill.

    It is, IMHO, very hard to learn the subtleties of basics without good hands-on instruction.

    Time- children are a serious responsibilty and a major investment of time. Nonetheless, if you want something badly enough, you find a way to do it. If you have other priorities, cool, but in the main, when I hear excuses from people involving time, money, and "can't", "can't" generally means "won't". There's a difference, and to fail to make the distinction is self-deception.

    Later,

    Andrew

  5. #65

    Re Knives & Pole

    Tristian

    I can confirm what AndrewS said - Si-fu knew the pole but didnt learn the knives under Leung Ting. He has now learnt the knives from a different source. In fact, I had heard from Master Steve Tappin that Sifu Emin was accused of showing the WT weapons to the LatosaEscrima guys. Oh, and Master Steve knows the pole and the knife forms from what I gather from speaking to him ;o)

    Why not post the question on his guest book at www.ebmas.net He is always happy to respond to questions.
    Alasdair Kirby
    VingTzun Concepts
    www.vingtzun.co.uk

  6. #66

    Wink Neoi

    Why not post the question on his guest book at www.ebmas.net He is always happy to respond to questions.
    Let me guess what his answer will be...


    Hey, they were his own words!


    T.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    England
    Posts
    235
    Boztepe has always said he learnt the pole from Leung Ting. He just said he never learnt the WT knives. The issue is not how much you learn but how it is applied in any case. It is very easy to learn the complete Wing Chun system from a variety of sources. In fact, Yip Chun has been known to teach the entire 3 empty hand forms, wooden dummy, pole and knife form in a single year, and then leave it for Chi sau to improve the students! (read his book Wing Chun martial arts where he states this as one method of teaching). That method is one that in my opinion is not very progressive.

    So as can bee seen, learning all the forms from a particular branch is not difficult. It does not mean you will ever be able to apply it properly though. It happens however that to learn all the WT forms takes over 15 years.

    I have here a very good interview by Kernspecht (WT second in command). If you do WT you will probably already have read it, but for non-WTers it talks about some of the differences of WT, and a bit about how it deals with wrestling.

    http://www.wtdefence.com/wt/gmkk/gmkk.htm
    FCF: So, who will you be facing at the next PRIDE event?

    'It doesn't matter who the opponent is, I expect to win by knockout'

    -Vanderlai Silva

  8. #68

    DREW

    BRA
    if u had the scedule i had u wouldn't B training itz not an excuse itz a reason
    PEACEnRESPECT

    TRON
    olskoolpopper

    PLAYBOYZ INC / NAMELESSnFACELLESS

  9. #69
    Tron,

    after my first year of karate, I came to the decision that training less than 15hrs a week was a waste of my and my teacher's time. I've held to that for the last 11 years, perhaps not as intelligently or efficiently as would be ideal, but barring two months of some health difficulties, I'll take at best a week or two off every 4-6 months (and now also cycle the nature and intensity of my training foci). My first six years of WT were medical school and residency training. I have had many weeks of my life where I trained more than I slept.

    I have no problem with someone having different priorities, but to me, "I don't have time" is almost always an excuse.

    Later,

    Andrew

  10. #70

    WAAAAA WAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAA

    DREW when u have kidz you'll see but itz not an excuse i'm lucky enough 2 of hooked up with BUDDAH FIST and i can BABY SIT n get BEAT DOWN at the same tyme so itz all good i'm making tyme i work 5 [now 6] jobz and when ever my baby goez 2 sleep i either DANCE,WORK OUT or TRAIN
    i'm a dancer 1st BIG BAD GUNG FU DUED 2nd [lol] and i have to train cuzz no one respects a FAT dancer so i DO make tyme i have 2 make tyme 2 bad schools arn't that flexable with tyme OR money
    ey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    i wanna make a charge 2 all you more experienced fighterz if u run across some one in my situation [broke,limited tyme,hungry 2 learn] and u can hook up n train with em DO IT
    BUDDAH FIST
    isn't trying 2 get rich he likes WNG CHUN..simply thatz why we're training......no motives
    when u start gettyn N2 SCHOOLS/ORGANIZATIONS you'll never know the teacher'z motives
    any wayz another long post from someone who'z MA history isn't that long
    PEACEnRESPECT

    TRON
    olskoolpopper

  11. #71
    Tron,

    kids are a huge responsibility- one I'm glad not to have.

    Dancing is a great base for any martial training- some of the most talented students I've seen have had a base in gymnastics or dance.

    Good luck with your training; maybe we can catch up when I'm up in SF.

    A last caution- I've never charged a junior for training. During my first few years in I made one request of my juniors, one 'fee' - be there and work when you train, and show up either 3x a week or 2x a week and do 20 minutes 'homework' 2-3x a week. No one ever lived up to it. It takes a lot of energy and focus to teach, and can distract you from working on your own material and problems (especially if you're a conscientious teacher). Hence the caution- don't undervalue something just because it's free, put in as much work as you can.

    Yeah, I'm being preachy, but flaky training partners p&ss me off.

    Later,

    Andrew

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Bonus Aeries
    Posts
    616
    Originally posted by AndrewS

    kids are a huge responsibility- one I'm glad not to have.
    You don't know what you're missing. Kids are great and you sound like you've got some good values to pass on to them. I don't think a man grows up until he takes responsibility for a family.
    Good luck with your training; maybe we can catch up when I'm up in SF.
    If you're coming to SF, there's a lot of Wing Chun. If you have the time, I'd like to invite you to visit San Jose Wing Chun, just south of Frisco.
    Yeah, I'm being preachy, but flaky training partners p&ss me off.
    Me too. You sound as if you train seriously. More power to you.

    Regards,
    Uber Field Marshall Grendel

    Mm Yan Chi Dai---The Cantonese expression Mm Yan Chi Dai, translates to "Misleading other people's children." The idiom is a reference to those teachers who claim an expertise in an art that they do not have and waste the time and treasure of others.

    Wing Chun---weaponized Chi (c)

  13. #73
    Hey Grendel,

    Dunno if I'll ever do the family thing. I respect it greatly, but am not in the place where it would be the right thing to do.

    Thanks for the invite, I'd like to take you up on it next time I'm up that way.

    Later,

    Andrew

    BTW- Grendel- from Beowulf or the old Mage backup story?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Bonus Aeries
    Posts
    616
    Originally posted by AndrewS
    Hey Grendel,

    Dunno if I'll ever do the family thing. I respect it greatly, but am not in the place where it would be the right thing to do.
    None of my business regarding you, but in general I think families have a civilising effect on society, and a lack of same, an uncivilising effect. Families are the best place to teach values. A family offers its members a lot of support.

    My kwoon is like a family to me. My sifu, Ben Der, has six children of his own. All but the youngest two are now married.
    Thanks for the invite, I'd like to take you up on it next time I'm up that way.
    You'd be welcome any time.
    BTW- Grendel- from Beowulf or the old Mage backup story?
    From Beowulf. What is the old Mage backup story? Last time someone asked me, they asked if the name came from the Matt Wagner comic. Ugh.
    Uber Field Marshall Grendel

    Mm Yan Chi Dai---The Cantonese expression Mm Yan Chi Dai, translates to "Misleading other people's children." The idiom is a reference to those teachers who claim an expertise in an art that they do not have and waste the time and treasure of others.

    Wing Chun---weaponized Chi (c)

  15. #75
    Hey Grendel,

    I hear you on the importance of family- I just tend to wind up making my friends into my family (er, actually, more like the Addams family). The level of commitment involved in raising kids is past what I'm healthily willing to do now- after the last couple of people with children I've dated, I've realized that it's not in me to stand by while I see something done poorly by a child.

    Yup- Grendel was a backup story in the original Mage series by Matt Wagner, inked by Rich Rankin, published by Comico. It's gone on to be a franchise and is actually extremely cool. Mage was a modern retelling/re-examination of the Arthur/ Fisher King legend. Grendel (the backup) was chronicle of the life of an incredibly dapper criminal and assasin, an intellectual and physical prodigy who became an acclaimed author, while unifying control of a number of organized crime families by the sword. The conflict centers around a misshapen semi-human mystic who stalks him while maintaining a friendship with his adopted 7 year old daughter. The art was a spectacular riff on art deco.

    Err, yes, I've read too many comics.

    Later,

    Andrew

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