What the hell's happening to MMA?

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
to stop talking down of mine

i haven't talked down about your views willow sword. you know that.


stuart b.

[dre]

I have just read this entire thread. I have read some very well thought out an intuitive replies. I've also read some crap.

I agree almost entirely with Merry's points. This isn't the first time for that though , he's also got a good head for weapons fighting if I remeber right

And a little personal reaction of mine to commericialisim in MMA :

Yesterday, I actually had some of the same thoughts about the commerical status of MMA when reading "Fightsport" "Grappling" and "Xtreme -somthingorother".

All of which were quite dissapointing to me. I was not impressed byt the ***** enlargment ads that extolled that ***** enlargement was better for you and "For everyone".

I have also noticed the general label of MMA type events as "low class" or "low brow". I don't think this is right - although it is seemin gto go the way of Pro Wresling - media is leading us to this desination.

Also , previously (2 or more yers ago) I have placed very little value in the so called "Wu De" or martial ethics. I'm beggining to see why it exists , the problem is that "Wu De" seems to be absent from lots of MMA , which just makes all Fighters/martial Artists ,look like trashy losers. Instead of good sport or competiton , they advertise gutterfights. Instead of some kind of unity between various MA's (at least in competiton) we get "BJJ + MT = 0wnZ0rs". This makes everyone look bad.

As far as "***** enlargement" etc, they (MMA Media) should not allow refuse in their magazines, lest they begin to look like the trash they advertise. When those kind of things are shown next to fighters/events , people begin to subconsiously link the two, which can ruin everything.

Moreover, style-bashing IS , I gaurntee you, alive and well in BJJ schools. More so than most. Is this "Wu De"? Absolutly not. MMA media and some instructors encourage this.

I myself had considered going to a BJJ school , I'm not anymore. I will not be even passingly affiliated with that kind of stuff. Becides, I wouldn't look any good in a speedo.

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi All.

Personally, I would not judge a MA by it's publications.
Seen too many good mags go to the dogs as the focus of interest changed.

Most of the good mags start of as "hardcore" done by stylists for stylists.

As time goes by and editing staff starts to change as well as the publication volume starts to grow advertisement starts to play a role to cover additional costs like color printing, paying for part-time writers, shipping, distribution, etc.

Personally, I would prefer more of a Newsletter type with no Ads, in B/W do a filly-fledged magazine.
But those are unrealistic in a commercial way.

There are a few good Online E-zines out that are e-mailed to subscribers.
Low overhead, still in colour with pics & only style related or no ads in the publication.

They usually are done in PDF Format.

Cheers.

[scotty1]

"Becides, I wouldn't look any good in a speedo."

I hear you bro.

I think they would produce an arse-hair mustache of quite a large size.

Willing to give it a go though.

[dre]

Nah, I think I just don't have the stones to go out there essencially undressed in front of 10,000 people and fight.

At least with Judo they let you keep your clothes on

[ArrowFists]

The next "fad" Martial Art is going to be Capoeira.

As for MMA, it has always been a part of Martial Arts, and it always will.

[sweaty_dog]

Tito Ortiz, the "brutal psycho" who is the light heavyweight champion of the UFC, organizes toy drives for underprivileged children and sent personal notes to the kids of some of his adult fans for their birthdays. I have met a lot of lesser known guys that were friendly and helpful and would help even the most hopeless beginner train.

I would like to know why this is so much less worthwhile than charging people 15 dollars an hour for a few pieces of a form. I have done enough martial arts to know that selfishness, delusion, egotism and greed are far from uncommon in both traditional and modern styles. If we were all so idealistic and pure we would be feeding the homeless or digging wells in Africa, not trying to show how tough/enlightened we are in the kwoon, the gym or the internet. Don't even start with that "I like to help people by saving them from attackers" rubbish either, unless you are a cop or a guardian angel.

This is not an attack on TMA's just a reality check for people who think their excrement is odorlessless. I agree that MMA is often marketed in a trashy way but then again, the people who appreciate heart and good technique will go anyway, it's just a matter of filling some extra seats with the "lowest common denominator", people who just want to see someone get beaten up.

[Shadow Dragon]

Sweaty_Dog.

I agree with you.

Pretty much encountered the same attitude from outsiders when I was still riding for my Motorbike Club.
Everybody thought we were rough and tough because some dumb asses gave the whole lot a bad rap.

Cheers.

[Merryprankster]

i practice kung fu for me

Then, ultimately, there is no difference between what we do, from an ego perspective--one is just as much of an ego trip as the other--or alternately, one is as equally egoless as the other.

As this is the lynchpin of your argument, the rest collapses.

[dre]

I would like to know why this is so much less worthwhile than charging people 15 dollars an hour for a few pieces of a form

Whoever said it wasn't. I would go to see ether event.

I have done enough martial arts to know that selfishness, delusion, egotism and greed are far from uncommon in both traditional and modern styles. If we were all so idealistic and pure we would be feeding the homeless or digging wells in Africa, not trying to show how tough/enlightened we are in the kwoon, the gym or the internet. Don't even start with that "I like to help people by saving them from attackers" rubbish either, unless you are a cop or a guardian angel.

So the logic there is that since we have all done something egotstic/jerky in our lives we are procluded from criticisim of Egotisim/Jerkiness? Only holyer-than-thou semi-Saints have the right to look at others with criticisim in mind? Maybe I'm not some gaurdian angel or cop or Kungfu Cowboy, but that dosen't stop me from being annoyed by things that are rude or trashy - which MMA is starting to get a reputation for.

This is not an attack on TMA's just a reality check for people who think their excrement is odorlessless. I agree that MMA is often marketed in a trashy way but then again, the people who appreciate heart and good technique will go anyway, it's just a matter of filling some extra seats with the "lowest common denominator", people who just want to see someone get beaten up.

Do you know what I am sick of? The argument that MMA should ignore it's growing bad reputation for immaturity and lack of respect becuase TMA also falls prey to the same ills (allbeit at a much lower level). I've yet to go into the TMA class that can even hope to match the bluster and swagger of a good, self-ashured BJJ class.

As far as low demnominators go, why not just advertise it as what it is - MMA. Not street fights or reality or whatever. That might not raise public opinion, but it would be being more honest about whats really going on.

[Braden]

"I've yet to go into the TMA class that can even hope to match the bluster and swagger of a good, self-ashured BJJ class."

I have.

[Tigerstyle]

I have also.

[rogue]

Do you know what I am sick of? The argument that MMA should ignore it's growing bad reputation for immaturity and lack of respect becuase TMA also falls prey to the same ills (allbeit at a much lower level). I've yet to go into the TMA class that can even hope to match the bluster and swagger of a good, self-ashured BJJ class.

Ever read the stuff that gets posted on the WC, Internal and Mantis forums? I've been to a few BJJ classes and I've seen very little bluster and swagger, and when I did the person doing it had better be ready to back it up.

[Tigerstyle]

"So the logic there is that since we have all done something egotstic/jerky in our lives we are procluded from criticisim of Egotisim/Jerkiness? Only holyer-than-thou semi-Saints have the right to look at others with criticisim in mind? Maybe I'm not some gaurdian angel or cop or Kungfu Cowboy, but that dosen't stop me from being annoyed by things that are rude or trashy - which MMA is starting to get a reputation for."

dre,
I think you may be missing the point of his post. sweaty_dog is saying that bullies, jerks, out-of-control egos, etc. are universal. No MA, or any other group, exclusively hosts a majority of the people listed above.

If some jerk goes into a kung fu class, chances are he'll be a jerk that does kung fu. There is a chance that the teacher, the students or some experience in that school can change him so that he is less of a jerk, but the same can happen in a BJJ school.

Style-bashing wasn't invented at BJJ schools, and it definitely is not only seen in BJJ/MMA schools.

Also, I learned to be a good person from my parents. I was a good person before I started learning kung fu, and I'm still a good person after I started learning BJJ. Both schools exposed me to things that can help me be a better person, and some things that can make me a not-so-good person.

[sweaty_dog]

My point, as Tigerstyle put very well, is that in all fields of human endeavour there are jerks. MMA just attracts a slightly different type of jerk to kung fu and other TMA.

My other point is, why the hell do you care whether MMA is trashy? eminem is trashy, but I don't have to go to his concerts so I don't.

Also, my BJJ class doesn't bash other styles nearly as much as some kung fu schools I've been to. The only styles they really care much about are Judo, Japanese jiu jitsu and wrestling. The few idiots that come online to trash other MAs are a very small minority.

I could get a whole lot more personal about all that "bluster and swagger" nonsense, but I'd rather keep this civil.