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Thread: Do the armed forces teach ground fighting?

  1. 09-11-2002, 06:10 AM #1
    phoenix-eye
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    Do the armed forces teach ground fighting?

    Don't know if this is an dumb question but I thought it would be interesting to know...

    My question is to anyone who has been in the armed forces and trained in unarmed combat - to what degree, if any, are groundfighting skills taught?

    From what I have seen (limited) - any demonstration or footage of soldiers doing unarmed combat training seems to almost exclusively deal with striking range and possibly some joint locks for disarms.

    If ground fighting is not taught to any real degree what does this say about its perceived usefulness in a life or death situation? My guess would be that the soldier would want to finish any confrontation with some focused strikes rather than go to the floor and be at the mercy of the other guy's comrades.

    If this is actually the case then what implications does it carry for us civilian martial artists? If ground work is of little value to the army then is it of little value to us?

    As I say - I don't know so this is all hypothetical. I could be talking total BS.
    "We had a thing to settle so I did him"
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  2. 09-11-2002, 06:14 AM #2
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    scotty1
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    Makes sense to me mate, but I'm sure a life or death battlefield situation carries additional factors which may make groundfighting less necessary.

    I personally can see the value of groundfighting in civilian life as opposed to battlefield life.
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  3. 09-11-2002, 06:19 AM #3
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    ewallace
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    If ground fighting is not taught to any real degree what does this say about its perceived usefulness in a life or death situation
    Well, just ask the infamous "Hockey Dad". Oh wait you can't because he is dead. He was "ground and pounded" to death. If he had some ground training we might have been able to ask him.
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen
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  4. 09-11-2002, 06:21 AM #4
    Ford Prefect
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    Army basic training has adopted some BJJ, and the Army Rangers train BJJ basics to a large extent. I also beleive the Marines are incorporating it. If you go to the army's web site, you can see guys grappling in fatigues during basics. I remember one clip of a nice guard pass to a hammer-lock.
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  5. 09-11-2002, 06:29 AM #5
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    Yes they do...

    http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/at...25.150/toc.htm
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  6. 09-11-2002, 06:31 AM #6
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    If you want more...

    http://www.ejmas.com/jnc/jncindex.htm
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  7. 09-11-2002, 06:32 AM #7
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    ewallace
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    It also depends on what unit/branch they are in. There is no one program for unarmed training for all branches of the armed forces.
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen
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  8. 09-11-2002, 07:32 AM #8
    LEGEND
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    As u can see from the links above that the army and special forces have adopted BJJ and boxing/muy thai strikes as a major focus in their hand to hand combat curriculum. BUT please note...they really don't work on this alot! Most of their training is with weapons and scenarios. From what I've heard the BJJ and other hand to hand discipline training is for INSPIRING a WINNING ATTITUDE ala Vince Lombardi.
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  9. 09-11-2002, 07:52 AM #9
    Ford Prefect
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    Legend has caught the correct.
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  10. 09-11-2002, 10:10 AM #10
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    Merryprankster
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    Legend is right more or less.

    Is this a troll attempt? Seriously--I'm not trying to be a jerk, just asking that you admit it if it is...

    The requirements for personal self defense are a bit different than those of being a good soldier. I don't want them training H2H. I want them shooting people, blowing them up, learning unit tactics and how to function as an integrated whole. H2H is a small small focus compared to weapons.

    Warfighting and Selfdefense--unrelated in almost every way.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

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  11. 09-11-2002, 02:02 PM #11
    phoenix-eye
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    Merryprankster - it's not a troll attempt. As I said - "could be a dumb question" - its just that the army people that I know get some pretty sparce training in unarmed combat and they didn't really have much clue.

    I was just interested to see what they actually do on a more general basis - so thanks for the answers.

    Sometimes I think weird thoughts....... but you only learn by asking.
    "We had a thing to settle so I did him"
    Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.
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  12. 09-11-2002, 02:17 PM #12
    phoenix-eye
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    Also - point taken about H2H being a minor issue in comparison to weapons training. However, you do expect (at least some areas of ) the forces to be at the cutting edge of all ranges of combat - long and close range.
    "We had a thing to settle so I did him"
    Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.
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  13. 09-11-2002, 02:23 PM #13
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    I do know that some US Marine Recon troops have been training pekiti-tirsia kali in the Phillipines along with the Phillipino marines.
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen
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  14. 09-11-2002, 03:31 PM #14
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    ground fighting

    When i went to boot they were beginning to introduce this belt system which you earn a belt as soon as you passed certain close combat requirments. We learned many mixed martial arts and take downs. Also some pressure point training. This past summer at officer candidates course they taught some more hand to hand fighting. They dont teach that much but just enough to survive. Our recon units learn sambo and get more hand to hand classes than us.
    JOhnny
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  15. 09-11-2002, 05:07 PM #15
    TaoBoxer
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    Sambo? BJJ? Whats the matter? they couldn't find someone to teach them Matrix Fighting?? What a crock. THat stuff is as effective for a field soldier as a deadly Spork kata.......
    May Your Blade Chip and Shatter
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