What the hell's happening to MMA?

[SifuAbel]

People are begining to treat MMA as a style unto itself. It just sounds cooler to call it MMA. Its kickboxing(some good but mostly bad kickboxing) and brand X wresting or jj.
As time goes on its becoming less and less about fighting and more about the new MMA, More Massive Anabolics.

It does attact the teenage fringe. As we can tell here every summer. Sex is a big seller to the 16- 23 demographic. It tells them , "hey, be like us and you get all these chicks". They don't tell them that their pee pee's shrink with every dose or that thery are going to mutilate their bodies for absolutley nothing.

[The Willow Sword]

He said "Pee Pee's"



MRTWS

[rubthebuddha]

but the chicks, man, the chicks!

[TaoBoy]

I've always just gotten the impression that MMA guys were guys just interested in fighting and not much else - and this perception is due entirely to the way the majority of clubs/practitioners are portrayed in advertisements or in the media. Now, obviously the truth is that there are non-meatheads in MMA (just as there are meatheads in CMA etc) - but you just don't see it as much. I boycotted all these clubs until recently because the vibe they had was not what I was looking for. I'm sure others have felt the same.

Recently, I took my girlfriend - who studies kung fu with me - to check out a Gracie BJJ school. No-one greeted us, we were simply looked at and ignored and there was not a single female in the class. Not good for the business of your general MA public.

*takes a breath*

And what's with all the marketing martial on the gis of BJJ dudes? These guys look like billboards.

*takes breath - feels better*

[Serpent]

Hmmm. So the novelty is wearing off?

The whole concept is drowning in commercialism?

The MMA fad is drawing to an end?

Welcome to our world guys! Now you just have to go through all the crap and find the few gems of schools that are still out there and ignore the large majority of bollocks by which you are judged by the general the public.

[straight blast]

This is what happens when a style/whatever becomes a fad. Karate got massively hyped, Ninjutsu was the same- God even at one point Tae Kwon Do was considered to be the cream of the MA crop. It simply had to happen to MMA. Once the bandwagon starts rolling many are willing to leap onto it

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
People are begining to treat MMA as a style unto itself. It just sounds cooler to call it MMA. Its kickboxing(some good but mostly bad kickboxing) and brand X wresting or jj.
As time goes on its becoming less and less about fighting and more about the new MMA, More Massive Anabolics.

It does attact the teenage fringe. As we can tell here every summer. Sex is a big seller to the 16- 23 demographic. It tells them , "hey, be like us and you get all these chicks". They don't tell them that their pee pee's shrink with every dose or that thery are going to mutilate their bodies for absolutley nothing.

Why is it not a style? CMA mix snake and crane and call it wing chun. they mix ape and crane and call it hop gar. But, when you mix muay thai and grappling, it can't be it's own style?

as for mutilation, the avg kickboxer suffers no more damage than the avg boxer. with sport fighting, especially where grappling is involved, there is higher risk for knee injury, but that risk is common among most sports. As popular as MMA has become, there are still many misunderstandings/misconceptions.

As for fads, the next will be either san shou or shuai chiao.

[SifuAbel]

Nope, if we were talking about two SPECIFIC styles them maybe. But this is not the case with MMA . It a mixture of two TYPES of fighting. The styles are numerous and casually intermingled. There is no one set style you can say is THE mma.

As far as the mutilation is concerned, this is a selling point FOR and BY mma that is used like a mantra. There is NO thought of longevity in MMA. The number of people that quit due to injury is growing, RAPIDLY.

[SevenStar]

there's no longevity due to age constraints - obviously you can't do this at 55. the majority of mma injuries are minor - I've seen far worse in judo.

I can see your point on the MMA thing, but I think it can be classified as a general system. Then there are specifics, like shoot fighting, which is muay thai and bjj.

Is there one set system of longfist that you can say is THE longfist? I know of at least 3 different versions of lian bu chuan and gung li chuan, and two different versions of tuan da. it's still all called longfist. It conforms to longfist principles and varies in forms.

[omegapoint]

Originally posted by Xebsball
When i said MMA sucked nobody listened to me
The Gracies were bullies, what did you expect to come out of that huh? Fighting spirit, honor, blah blah blah?

I don't know if I would agree with that assessment of the Gracies. I think they felt that it was time to show a large audience the effectiveness of their family system. Being confident doesn't always equate to arrogance or being a bully. Many of the challenge matches that occurred outside of the ring were made to the Gracies.

I personally am friends with Ryron and to a certain degree Renner Gracie and they are really cool and down-to-earth. They don't go around bullying people, but they know what to do if bullied. Royce is a very nice person, as are all the GJJ/BJJ/CJJ guys I've met and trained with.

They have very stong chi and that intimidates a lot of folks, hahaha!!!

NHB as it is today is trying to stay alive and gain a bigger following. The truth is that with commercialization many of the seedy trappings of capitalism begin to manifest. Sex and sensationalism sells. I agree with Ryu about the efficacy of MMA training, but he also knows how i feel about "bad budo" (see Sokon Matsumura's "Bucho Ikko"). Bye all....

[Martial Joe]

If it makes you feel better, most of the fighters are really nice guys from what ive heard, read, and seen.

[Merryprankster]

Abel, the injury rate is indicative of hard training. That's life. Hard training in live scenarios (not life-like--two guys squaring off in speedos will NEVER be life like unless you're on the beach in Brazil) produces injuries. Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing... Watch a Basho--Sumo wrestlers are contstantly fighting hurt. If you quit because of injuries, well, good luck finding a place that goes hard where you won't get injured. I haven't found that yet. This is a price of training with a competition mindset. You don't want to compete, you can take it a little easier.

Oddly enough I've had fewer injuries boxing than grappling...

Welcome to our world guys! Now you just have to go through all the crap and find the few gems of schools that are still out there and ignore the large majority of bollocks by which you are judged by the general the public.

Yes and no--You join an MMA gym, and most likely, you will train with a competition mindset and orientation. It's a full contact sport with full contact training. It's like boxing--nobody who enters a boxing gym thinks they can get away with not sparring full contact and call themselves a boxer. You go to box, expect to get hit. Boxing doesn't attract hobbyists or peaceful neo-hippies. An MMA school without contact that claims its too deadly to fight? That doesn't begin to fit the mindset of the types of people MMA attracts. We aren't interested in philosophy or 'personal improvement,' as primary goals. We're there to learn to fight. Most of us aren't even INTERESTED in self defense. I'm not that interested. Look, I do a sport with self-defense applications, and I don't think I suffer any illusions about that. MOST of what I train is sport BJJ related because it's fun. I also have managed to use it in a less restricted environment and that was fun too.

And what's with all the marketing martial on the gis of BJJ dudes? These guys look like billboards.

AMEN!! I LMAO every time I go to a tournament. Here comes goateed, big bad tattooed, stacked, angry looking Joe Suxalot wearing a billboard. I laugh to myself everytime.

Willow--terse and utterly devoid of content--except for the terseness, I'd say that's about par.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I always knew it to be rootless, and it was simply what it always perchanced itself to be. Techniques knicked from everything else, learnt quickly and used in a peiced together fashion. It is true that people have used it or gone under the guise of it and have managed to hammer others into the ground. However to be honest I'd be glad to see its demise.

[Merryprankster]

I always knew it to be rootless, and it was simply what it always perchanced itself to be. Techniques knicked from everything else, learnt quickly and used in a peiced together fashion. It is true that people have used it or gone under the guise of it and have managed to hammer others into the ground. However to be honest I'd be glad to see its demise.

Because??

And I'd have to disagree here--a "rootless" BJJ black belt is a rarity. Most people who do this stuff have an exceptionally strong base in something. With Ryu, it's Judo. I have a strong wrestling and BJJ background. One of my friends is an outstanding MT fighter, etc.

[Repulsive Monkey]

so why do they deviate into the world of MMA maybe as strong as their foundation is in one art, it could prehaps be that they initially started out in mediocre art?

Now for one I do not consider most traditional arts as being insubstantial , the main probelm is that someone cleaves to that art for 8 years or so never gets beyond an intermediate level and then gets bored and goes off onto something else. Most traditional arts do not have an end point. So saying that someone has reach the finishing line of having a black belt, intrinsically, is totally inconsequential. Does this mean they only have a finite amount of knowledge now left for them to encircle their entire art? No it usually means that they have more than ever before to learn as they open onto another level. Its this structure of unfolding which is not present in MMA. However it is also this (as stated above) scenario which leads many into MMA too.