What the hell's happening to MMA?

[apoweyn]

willow sword,

that's a bullsh*t copout. can't be bothered to be part of the solution, so be part of the problem? that's just sad.

i will let you in on a little secret Apoweyn. i could post alot more insight and content if there were individuals other than "kids" and "trolls" here.

if you can't beat 'em, lead 'em. brilliant.

while we're sharing secrets, willow sword, know this: there are plenty of people here who refuse to let the trolls and kids get the better of them and still post a lot of content (in addition to being able to chat). if you can't hack that, then that's your deal. but please spare me the condescending, "we brought it on ourselves" routine.

actually, scratch that. i'll spare myself. i'm disappointed to see someone who used to make good points pack it in. but that's your choice to make. now i'm making mine not to waste any more time on your 'chats.'


stuart b.

[apoweyn]

sun tzu,

no, you're absolutely right. couldn't have said it better, actually.


stuart b.

[Merryprankster]

Sun,

How could we market better? What could we do to educate the audience?

I think the first step would be to get BJJ on the ESPN II Extreme Games coverage. At the beginning, they could offer a visual tutorial about the rules, with constant verbal reinforcement throughout the broadcast.

You reach the target audience, but avoid the sex and some of the attitude.

[The Willow Sword]

MMA (mixed martial arts) such a general term. for All types of martial arts are mixed to a degree. As other posters have written here, i wont get into it.

Marketing is not bad ,,but look what is being marketed,,and to our youth,,who are very angry right now. We have events such as the WWF and Now the UFC promoting and endorsing brutalizing of one another. Our youth sees this and they want to be just like them,,A bully.

Man i tell you if all you can do to make money in this world is FIGHT? Then maybe some of these guys need to go back to school or college or whatever to get a decent paying job and do some good for thier community and country rather than what they are doing now. i know i know dont begrudge a man his living, but what message are you sending forth to those whose minds are impressionable? you are saying "yeah lets go and fight and try to hurt one another so that we can command and earn respect as individuals and atheletes.

Take the NFL for instance,,despite the fact that there is corruption in just about every endeavor in this country,,we have strong good hearted individuals who play football,,entertain the crowd and provide a good role model for children and aspiring youths who want to excel at athletics.

when we look at the martial arts what are we looking at?,,,we are looking at combat,,we are looking at the art of killing someone
or hurting them in order to preserve your life or the life of someone who is in danger. you talk about HONOR and RESPECT,
go talk to some veterans of WAR and see what they have to say about these UFC tournaments and the individuals that go to them. Nam Vets and Gulf war vets that i have spoken with have said it best,,,",until you have death staring you in the face and when you have taken another human life in defense of your life and your country",,all you are doing is playing,,and fantasizing.
In the philosphy surrounding the martial arts we see the same thing said over and over,,and why do people not follow this advice? "these arts are for combat and in defense of ones life and should NOT be used for sport or to do harm to others in a frivolous way". is this my opinion? yes. but it is ALSO the opinions of the masters of old that have seen death and conflict and that have created the systems that we now study ,,improve upon and Bast@rdize and turn to cr@p. So i trust what the old masters have to say. Master ueshiba Morehai said it best. "The best technique is to AVOID combat". and this was a man that killed many in the korean war and some hand to hand.
if you want to test yourself,,,do it in the kwoon or the dojo,,and do it in a serious manner. dont play around and know that you will get hurt at times but also know that the ONLY difference between true training and sparring in the kwoon or dojo and the street? is that in the kwoon we have respect for each other and when we hurt each other we do what we can to help heal it.
how many of you who train in your schools have the knowledge to set a bone if it breaks? to stop bleeding of a nose,,,to work out a cramp? i doubt many have that skill. or to do CPR if someone stopped breathing? i heartalk of how its so cool to be able to kick ass,,,,i think its even cooler when you are able to mend and heal as WELL as kick ass.

MRTWS

[Suntzu]

I like where this is going…

for one fighting is sexy… so the sex is here to stay… altho it shouldn't be as blatent… it has to be another venue… UFC is contaminated… whoelse would by time for a fighting event beside beer, AWMA and ESPN's regular rotation… ESPN would be good… hell they blew up the X-games... Born To Fight had skating outside but no ESPN tho... I would love to see SAN SHOU( OK BJJ too ) make the BIG's as they say...

but the big ??? Is who's gonna buy the time???

[Merryprankster]

"these arts are for combat and in defense of ones life and should NOT be used for sport or to do harm to others in a frivolous way".

But willow, stories about Lei Tai tournament (vice challenge)matches abound. How do you sqaure this part of the CMA tradition with what you wrote above? In other words, what makes today different than then?

[Suntzu]

as for the audience… for the most part they don’t care about the rules, initially, they just wanns see people beat the hell outta each other… they'll learn the rules, scoring etc and they follow along… but the most important piece is the fighters themselves... they want people they can root for... they wanna know them like them ( or hate 'em )... watch 'em move thru the ranks, develop rivalries, talk smack, be humble and kick azz...

[The Willow Sword]

well today is not the wild wild west,,although there are some who will say differently,, and even then those matches were not condoned by all.

There will always be an element to martial arts that is less desired by the philosophers and the common folk. but as for the warrior poets of the time who experienced the fear of what it was like to live day to day in defense of thier life, i take thier advice to heart and try to Follow it and not make the same mistakes they have made and have admitted in thier writings.

apoweyn: sorry to make you so angry,,,,,

MRTWS

[Suntzu]

OK, off topic here a bit…

combat sports are a part of everyones life in one way or another… some hunt deer ( some hunt other people ), some smack there wife, some watch sports ( most sports have combat applications, even golf ) and if some are watching somebody must be doing the doing... i'm educated have what some would call a good job, alltho i rather it not be my career... but i'm choose to put my body on the line for a combat sport... it's not all kick his azz, kick his azz... but we're MAist and we already know this... you learn about your self... most of the time you like your opponent, at the very least, respect them... and if you dont get hurt you learn something about yourself and go on to improve yourself... for the fighter its more the beating the next guy up... and to get back on topic... those that dont do it still NEED to have that connection and pay big $$$ to watch, yell at the screen and moday morning quaterback...and the fighters need to get paid either by Coors light or GGW…

[apoweyn]

willow sword,

i disagree with a lot of what you say. but that doesn't make me angry. that's the nature of discussion. but you're entirely too intelligent to get away with giving up and spouting nonsense. if you're disgusted with the forum, help fix it. or don't. but for god's sake, don't make it worse.

your apology isn't necessary (but i appreciate it all the same). just help get this thing back on track, yeah?


stuart b.

[BeiKongHui]

My wife and I were discussing ways to lobby ESPN to start showing NHB, K1, Muay Thai, more Shidokan...things of that nature as opposed to the fat mullet-heads breaking boards.
Sure, there's probably not a huge market for it but surely it would draw more people than "creative breaking" or those forms with music things they do. Also, it doesn't have to be UFC or Pride there are plenty of other events they could cover. Anyone have an idea on how to get some momentum for this idea going? Would an online petition make any difference?

[Merryprankster]

Willow, I appreciate what you are saying, but I am clearly missing the intent of your post. I don't understand how it answers the question of why competition was acceptable then and isn't now. What has changed?

OR, are you trying to say that competitions of this sort were never acceptable and that we should rethink ever holding them?

Suntzu--you don't have to appreciate the rules of boxing to appreciate it, or kickboxing. BUT, I have found that grappling intensive sports require a knowledge of the rules, and a basic visual understanding of what say, an ippon is, or a sweep, or a submission. Otherwise, it looks like two people rolling around or hugging each other.

[The Willow Sword]

competition then was accepted and not now. sport games involving fighting have always been prevalent in society,,doesnt mean that they were condoned by everyone. But the competitions noe are actually alot more TAME thatn they were back then when individuals would walk out either dying the next day due to internal injuries or not walking out at all because they were killed.

Healthy,and honorable exhibitions of skill in forms and demonstrations are good,,,,,,somewhere along the line the rivalry and egos of the different schools came about,,i guess with the advent of Marketing", come join our school we are the best and those guys over there suck". then the competition in the arena to see which school was the best insued and then gambling follows after that and then you have a similar situation to what we have today with UFC back then, anly not as dolled up and maybe there is more of a respect rather than rivalry going on,,but as UFC continued to grow it seemed as though the braggards came out of the woodwork spouting off thier sh!t, and challenging each other in grudge matches. totally inappropriate.

i have watched these UFC and no holds barred fights. the only skill and techniques that i have seen are from the gracies,,and a sense of good spirit and honor. but i think where they have failed and created a bad reputation is actually going and competeing in events such as these,,that really serve no purpose other than to brutalize.

MRTWS

[Suntzu]

True, BJJ is not a Joe Shmo friendly sport and honestly wont draw too many sponsors except for like X gi wear or whatever… so your right it would require Joe to get a lil education about the sport… remember Speed Judo??? Just asking… I'm coming at it from a San Shou POV... so we ARE seeing 2 different perspectives... and one is deffinitly more marketable than the other... i cant really say how to market BJJ but i got a squat load for san shou...

[Suntzu]

TWS - I doubt there is a lack of skill in the UFC… tru, some strickers suck but they may have tremendous ground skill and vice versa… and like I said rolling on the ground is not the most exciting thing to watch unless you KNOW whats going on… personally I'd rather watch K-1, but that's not what this thread is about... and just because all they show is the trash talk and dic measuring doesn't mean they are unsportsmanlike and lack honor... they are just showing you the heat of the moment and the sex that sells...