What the hell's happening to MMA?

[SevenStar]

"NHB cats are also destroying that which makes them unique, their physical abilities."



If anything, they are furthering their physical abilities. If you are talking about injuries, they are usually minor. I've seen worse injuries in judo than in nhb.

[Merryprankster]

That depends willow, is the soldier a rapist? A murderer? Is he doing drugs? Is he a wife beater? A child molester? What if he's all five?

Is the MMA fighter a loving father? A good husband? Clean and sober? Does he spend time with his children? Is he part of a community outreach program that teaches how to set goals and achieve them? What if he's all five?

Which one should I respect more?

[Internal Boxer]

Merry I would not bother wasting your time in answering Willow he cannot help his prejudiced bigoted attitude, I feel sorry for the guy.

[LiteBlu]

LOL at Willow Sword getting pimped online!


That's some funny $hit, boy!
LMFAO!

[apoweyn]

good grief willow sword.

i'm familiar with the philosophies of morihei ueshiba. and i'm relatively certain that he never advocated "meeting force with retaliatory use of the term 'f*ckchoad.'" nor did he subscribe to the practice of taking potshots at a person's nation of origin simply because he disagreed with them.

(by the way, i'm a limey, thank you very little.)

if you're going to call upon the authority of the masters, you could at least make a reasonable stab at emulating them.

nobody's expecting you to walk on water here, pal. they're just expecting you to acknowledge that perhaps you don't know everything about these MMA guys. that you don't know the sum total of their character. nor did the masters you cited. that you can't claim, without error, that they're interested purely in ego gratification.

you say you know your limitations. yet i've not once seen you illustrate that. i'm not expecting you to say you're wrong. you're not wrong. you have an opinion.

some people in MMA have egos. some people in copyediting have egos. some people in stamp collecting have egos. but some people simply have a question. "how good am i?" that's not a question that necessarily gets answered sparring with the people you know and train with. people with whom you're friendly. people who are less motivated to beat you than they are to go home injury free. it's a question that gets answered in direct competition with someone highly qualified AND motivated to beat you.

now perhaps the masters of old lived in an environment that provided more answers to that question. perhaps they couldn't help but have that question answered for them, under unpleasant circumstances. but nowadays, wars don't tell you much about personal combat. streetfights are frowned upon. and yet the basic question remains. "how good am i?"

now you can agree or disagree with how these people find their answers, but the very least you could do is credit them a little with the will to ask the question.


stuart b.

[The Willow Sword]

Master Ueshiba Morehei " no one can take away my strength siNce i do not use it. the best technique is to AVOID combat."
read what you will into that but i think it states his frame of mine quite clearly.

and as for the limeys here, i quoted from a movie(a fish called wanda) you should watch it. its funny

Not a bigot,,not a racist. anyway on to the subject at hand.

as far as me being "pimped" think whatever you want

the proff of my views are in what i have seen of these tournaments,,,they are brutal,,,,they serve no other purpose other than to be brutal,,they entertain an audience that gets off on being brutal. you guys seem to be real real defensive and trying to justify what you are doing by telling e that i am full of crap and that i dont know what i am talking about.

how good am i? what a question. that seems like ego driven to me.
and yes i have an ego as well,,,we all do. but my ego does not extend to the notion that i can kick ass or "how good am i"

the debate here and the original question posed is "what the hell is happening to MMA?" well the amswer is simple.
it has,in my opinion been tainted by those individuals who seek to capitolize on the entertainment industry,,satisfy thier urge and need to go out and brutalize themselves as well as others who have a like mind.

to ME MMA is an evolvement of the arts of old. taking the best of the best of every technique and making it an effective way to defend yourself in these days and times. but what seems to not have happened is the philosophy and the teachings behind these combative arts have not followed with the creation of MMA.
now it has become a sport of Bullies and over bearing testosterone.

i site Osensei Morehei for HE alone has been my inspiration for wanting to get into the martial arts. i have read his work extensively and if any one of you are looking for a good sound philosophy on how to live your life and be a peaceful martial artist rather than be a bully and a ego driven brutalizer then i suggest that you read his works.
i actually like the MMA's just not the way it is being portrayed.
this need to want to test yourself against another for the soul purpose of "am i good enough".
Hey ,,its a view that i have (16 yrs have i been in the martial arts) i think that accounts for something here.
i can be brash at times,,,sharp words,,anger,,,,jokester,,,,clown,,,,,serious at times and not. i apologize for the blunt and sharp remarks that i have posted,,,,but i will not reverse myself in the issue here. its what makes for great debate and conversations.

mrtws

[Suntzu]

the debate here and the original question posed is "what the hell is happening to MMA?" well the amswer is simple. it has,in my opinion been tainted by those individuals who seek to capitolize on the entertainment industry,,satisfy thier urge and need to go out and brutalize themselves as well as others who have a like mind.

about time...

[The Willow Sword]

i DID kind of hijack the thread. oops

MRTWS

[Suntzu]

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
Master Ueshiba Morehei " no one can take away my strength siNce i do not use it. the best technique is to AVOID combat."
read what you will into that but i think it states his frame of mine quite clearly.

I agree. It does describe Ueshiba's frame of mind quite nicely. But when you counter arguments by shouting 'f*ckchoad' and waxing superior about World War 2, I fear that the quote above hardly states your frame of mind very convincingly.

and as for the limeys here, i quoted from a movie(a fish called wanda) you should watch it. its funny

I agree again. It's very funny. Though you may want to bear in mind that Kevin Kline's character is not exactly a brain trust in that film.

Not a bigot,,not a racist. anyway on to the subject at hand.

Nope. Neither of those things. But not a yielding reed in the wind either (or some other apropos aikido analogy). Walk the walk, friend.

as far as me being "pimped" think whatever you want

I don't think I said that, so I'll leave that to whomever did.

the proff of my views are in what i have seen of these tournaments,,,they are brutal,,,,they serve no other purpose other than to be brutal,,they entertain an audience that gets off on being brutal. you guys seem to be real real defensive and trying to justify what you are doing by telling e that i am full of crap and that i dont know what i am talking about.

Here's where we start to get into trouble. "They serve no other purpose... " isn't proof. It's opinion. And it always will be. That said, I've said repeatedly that it's a perfectly valid opinion. I disagree with it. But you have a right to it. You even have a right to express your opinions on the competitors. Likewise, we have the right to debate it with you.

Yes, they are brutal. But it is the contention of many here that they do indeed serve a purpose beyond entertaining an audience that gets off on being brutal. More on that later.

how good am i? what a question. that seems like ego driven to me.
and yes i have an ego as well,,,we all do. but my ego does not extend to the notion that i can kick ass or "how good am i"

Of course it's an ego-driven question. Most questions involving the word "I" are ego driven. But it comes from precisely the same impulse that causes us to test for belt/sash rankings, spar in class, or start martial arts in the first place. If what you were looking for was purely enlightenment, then why study martial arts? Why not religion? Philosophy? Why engage in a practice that, by its design, brings you into direct conflict with others? (Don't bother with the aikido rhetoric. I know their stance on conflict. But it's still, at its core, an approach for engaging and then dispersing conflict.)

If you're engaged in a pasttime that is so thoroughly wrapped up in the concept of conflict, then the question "how good am I?" is an essential one to be able to answer. Not purely for ego gratification. Partly for logistical reasons. You don't face off with someone in the sparring class without, on some level, asking the question, "how good am I?"

If you absolutely knew the answer, you wouldn't bother. I know I can't fly. So I'm not in the habit of trying. And if you absolutely didn't care about the answer, you wouldn't bother either. That's part of the definition of not caring.

Every time you throw a kick, spar, hit the heavy bag, etc. you're looking to answer the question. "How good am I?" Without it, there's no grounds for improvement. Then there's no cause for practice. And no martial arts. For the MMA fighters, it's a fairly natural extension.

the debate here and the original question posed is "what the hell is happening to MMA?" well the amswer is simple.
it has,in my opinion been tainted by those individuals who seek to capitolize on the entertainment industry,,satisfy thier urge and need to go out and brutalize themselves as well as others who have a like mind.

Now, this I can't argue with. Many advocates of MMA are bothered by the 'tainting' of advertising, spectatorship, etc. That's why Ryu brought this up in the first place, right? But you're all too willing to toss the baby out with the bathwater. In your opinion, it's not a baby at all. And that's your right.

to ME MMA is an evolvement of the arts of old. taking the best of the best of every technique and making it an effective way to defend yourself in these days and times. but what seems to not have happened is the philosophy and the teachings behind these combative arts have not followed with the creation of MMA.
now it has become a sport of Bullies and over bearing testosterone.

So let's ditch the whole thing. Far better than trying to fix it, right? Same approach you decided to take with KFO. It's broken, so let's just make pointless posts and treat KFO the way it 'wants' to be treated. Please. Again, that's a copout. You're right that the general public's view of martial arts is screwy. Whether they believe us all to be Mr. Miyagi-like saviors or tattoed brutes, the basic problem remains. We're caricatures. And we'll remain so as long as we stubbornly refuse to teach people otherwise.

In the case of the Miyagi complex, the problem is that we buy into it ourselves. And we withdraw, thereby preserving the mystique. In the case of MMA, the promoters and vendors play to the lowest common denominator. So in each case, the depiction the public gets (and in time, wants) is this two-dimensional farce.

i site Osensei Morehei for HE alone has been my inspiration for wanting to get into the martial arts. i have read his work extensively and if any one of you are looking for a good sound philosophy on how to live your life and be a peaceful martial artist rather than be a bully and a ego driven brutalizer then i suggest that you read his works.

Many of us have.

i actually like the MMA's just not the way it is being portrayed.
this need to want to test yourself against another for the soul purpose of "am i good enough".

Then why? Why else do it? Can you provide one rationalization that doesn't come back to that same root question?

Hey ,,its a view that i have (16 yrs have i been in the martial arts) i think that accounts for something here.

Yes, it does. But I've been in for 18 years. That hasn't stopped you from talking to me as if I'm a bit thick.

i can be brash at times,,,sharp words,,anger,,,,jokester,,,,clown,,,,,serious at times and not. i apologize for the blunt and sharp remarks that i have posted,,,,but i will not reverse myself in the issue here. its what makes for great debate and conversations.

It does make for great debate, yes. What it doesn't make for is an honest search for answers. You've already decided "not to reverse myself." So why debate?

Entertainment. You find it entertaining. You're entertained by the conflict. It appeals to you on some level. That's what prompts you to say "f*ckchoad" when you could say "live and let live" the way Ueshiba might.

We're all interested in the idea of conflict, which is why we're all engaged in a study of the nature of conflict.


Stuart B.

mrtws [/B][/QUOTE]

[Merryprankster]

the proff of my views are in what i have seen of these tournaments,,,they are brutal,,,,they serve no other purpose other than to be brutal,,they entertain an audience that gets off on being brutal. you guys seem to be real real defensive and trying to justify what you are doing by telling e that i am full of crap and that i dont know what i am talking about.

No we don't. We get a little upset that you seem to think you can read our minds, and then tell us we MUST be wrong about what WE think/feel as to why we compete. I think that's reasonable. What if I told you the motivation you have for sex is that you like the way it makes you feel you have power over women because of the penetration aspect, and you enjoy thinking of them as dirty? I have a feeling you'd disagree. What would then be your response if I told you "Nope, you're wrong...the reasons I listed are the reasons YOU like sex."

how good am i? what a question. that seems like ego driven to me.

Willow, I ask you one question--who do you practice Kung Fu for?

[The Willow Sword]

Apoweyn" you draw up some good points, and i respect the way in which it is presented. note: dont beat my "****choad" comment too much. we all have used it at some point.


merry prankster: i practice kung fu for me and defense of my life. not for the arena ,,not for the ring,,,, there is a difference between what you do for sport and what i do for self. i do not wish to test myself in that manner. in the kwoon is all the testing i need. if i am confronted on the street(which i have been in the past) i rely on what i have been taught and what i have done in sparring training. now some would say that is not enough,,some say that you NEED to get into a scrap in order to see if what you have been learning is worth the time and trouble. and it would seem that this is a good ideal to have. HOWEVER, i do not go out and look for the fight, i do not wish to,
why would i want to do that? i have better things to do with my time. besides out on the street the dynamic is different then that of the ring, in the ring there is control there are rules, just as there is in the kwoon. i guess the difference that i see in sparring in the kwoon as oposed to the ring is that you are not out to take the guy out,,but it is in your mind. you control yourself to the degree that allows you to be a compassionate human being. can this taint the street confrontation and get you killed? could be ,,if your training regiman in the kwoon is cat and mouse and not practical. there is always a part of yourself that you hold back and control until the monent at which you "let the tiger loose" and from what i have been taught and what i have read and what i have experienced,,,you do NOT let the tiger loose in a frivolous manner.(such as with the mma tourneys and ufc matches) save it for the real confrontation,,when your life is in danger,,REAL danger. trust YOURSELF that you could defebd yourself properly. if you have any doubt in your mind about what you might be capable of. well,,,,,we all have that doubt.
but i am not going to go and look for the fight,,,for then i become the aggressor, i learned that when i fought Reemul. i was the bad guy i was the ego driven blowhard that couldnt just let it go. i have since changed the way i look at sparring and fighting. when i spar,,it is serious but not brutal like i am letting the tiger loose. that i save,,for when i truly need it.
hopefully this will answer some questions that you have about why i feel the way i do and why i speak out against these types of tournaments.
its like in sparring,,when i have taught people i say spar serious but spar controlled. in the kwoon,,we hit we kick we test ourselves there,,in the controlled environment and we do this so that we do not have to go out and do it on the street or the cagematch. there IS a difference.
in MMA the testing ground should stay in the school. these are not frivolous endevors or kids playing around. why treat it as such when you go to the ring to pit yourself against another person and hurt them or you get hurt by them? are they your enemy? NO but you treat them as such when you wildly attack them in a ferocious manner. its a grand contradition to step into a ring with the notion that you respect the other person then you
launch out and drive his head in to the mat, thats not respect,,thats not honor thats brutality. whats the difference when you are in the kwoon,,the difference is ,,,you dont brutalize.

MRTWS

[apoweyn]

willow sword,

fair enough. if you agree to stop talking down to those who don't share your precise ideals, i'll stop pointing it out when you fall short of them. deal?


stuart b.

[The Willow Sword]

to stop talking down of mine

MRTWS

[Suntzu]

OK OK OK... everyone agrees... now just get in the ring and beat the crap outta each other... sheesh