Back to Basics, How's Your Horse?

[Water Dragon]

I'm back into solid basics focusing on stance and footwork right now. I'm curious as to everyone's Horse Stance as we haven't fed the horse in a while here.

Here's mine: Shoulder width. The actual distance between the feet is the same as the length of your leg from the knee to the heel. Thighs should be parallel, the feet should point straight ahead, and the spine is elongated (raise the head and slightly tuck the butt in)

I hit the 2 minute mark last night with a goal of 3 minutes by November.

So, how's your horse?

[Suntzu]

my horse sucks... i have been thinkin bout getting back to the basics... i deffinitly might have to do that... 2 minutes??? i WAS getting there...

i was taught butt out tho

[Water Dragon]

We have a version with both feet together, thighs parallel and butt out. It's called the Three Flats (feet flat, thighs flat, arms flat) It's very similar to the horse but designed to help throws.

[Xebsball]

hey hello how you doin

now i do san ti shi, havent done horse no more.
used to 9 minutes before i started taking xing yi quan.

[Hau Tien]

At the school I train at, stance training is a part of our testing.

For our first test, we have to hold horse, ding (AKA Cat), and bow and arrow stances for 3 minutes each.

My last test had me holding all 3 for 7 minutes each. That was killer.

My next test, if I do well enough, will only involve a 10 minute horse (for the stance portion of the test, anyway)... I'm quite glad about that... holding ding stance for 7 minutes was murder.

So... my target for horse stance is now 10 minutes... some of my sihings have mentioned that after 15 mins, their legs go numb.

Oh... as a side note, on the black sash test, you have to hold a 30 minute horse. OUCH.

[Water Dragon]

But what horse? I know a lot of people do a wide horse with the feet splayed out. That one can be held for signifigantly (sp?) longer.

[HuangKaiVun]

My horse stance is as good as it always has been - or needs to be - for me.

Though I try to point my toes straight ahead, in combat my toes tend to point outwards a bit. However, I still retain the ability to use the lower leg to stop incoming kicks.

I can shuffle back and forth in the horse, and I can easily switch sides. I can also go from side to side in horse when I add my circular Nei Jia footwork.

When I issue hits, I put my whole body behind them as much as I can. Similarly, I'm able to withstand charges by bigger opponents - up to a point.

What I DON'T do is hold stationary horse in practice. A stance is dead to me if I can't get in and out of it at will.

[Merryprankster]

Oh fine. We fed and groomed him last night. "Horse Stance," is a 4-1 favorite at Belmont!

[Tvebak]

How about non existing=?
I really had to start all over again after starting doing xingyi, my teacher use a really close very hard horse stance as part of training...and i had always done the easy wide ones.
But the small version seems to be good for my knees (only if i stretch before doing it).
The wide version was a killer for my knees.
Water dragon: im sorry, it may be my bad english, but i dident quite grasp the stance you described...could you describe it ín some other way for me?

[Chang Style Novice]

Water Dragon -

When you say 'thighs parallel' do you mean parallel to the ground? If so, I tried horse your way just now, and it throws my balance way back (my butt is behind my heels) so it forces me to lean forward to stay standing?

Anyway, my horse is okay, I guess. I put my feet about 1.5 to 2x shoulder width, toes forward, knees above feet, thighs elevated about 30 degrees from parallel to the ground. I hold this for about two minutes (a guess, I don't time myself.)

[Water Dragon]

Stand with you feet about shoulder witdth apart. Drop down onto your right knee. That's where your left foot should be. Now, keep your back straight and squat down until you thighs are parallel to the floor. Now, groan and wail while your legs shake.

[Former castleva]

Started training it yesterday again,having been doing that today.
I don´t hold it for a long time,but I use it in various qi-gong exercises and stationary still rooting.
Ever tried picking a couple of bricks,laying them on their "spine" for a distance of about your shoulder width?
That´s nice,more hard rooting,builds up your balance (I also do non-martial stance training on bricks just to build up root and strength)
Standing in horse on TOP of the bricks,well that´s hard,I won´t try that for a while...

[fa_jing]

I've left the low horse practice for a while - now focusing on jumping rope for 15 minutes and my Wing Chun horse. Will get back to it, though! I recommend doing a back/hamstrings pose or exercise afterwards, and making sure to adequately stretch the quadriceps.

[General Kwei]

What exactly would this Horse Stance be for?

[Fu-Pow]

Your horsestance seems to be too narrow to be practical?. I think a deep horse stance should be about:

-1.5-2x shoulder width across

-Toes point straight forward to almost forward (this will vary in individuals based on the shape of the hip, eg. girls feet tend to point more outward).

-Make sure you keep the whole foot on the ground
(although my CLF Sifu tends do go up sligthly on the outside edge of the foot)

-Open the knees, make sure the knee is almost directly over the ankle. (This is the biggest mistake I see begginners make, their knees collapse inward. Your stance should have a box shape, not a triangle.)

-As you sink down keep a straight line between the nose and the coccyx (tail bone). Don't tilt your tailbone too much forward or stick you butt out. This axis formed between the nose and the coccyx will tend to tilt forward the lower that you go. This keeps the hip flexor muscles relaxed. But remember to keep the axis in alignment.

-Each style has different "depth" requirement depending on rootedness vs. mobility. So check with your Sifu on this point.

-Relax the neck (imagine your head is being pulled up by a string from the crown, but don't"push" it up)

-Relax the shoulders (you can put your hands/fists on your hips.)

-Open the chest to harness the natural tonic qualities of the torso, but don't intentionally stick it out (military style).

-Don't bounce up and down in your stance. Hold your position. If you feel like you need to stand up, go lower instead.

-I'd say 2 mins in a correct, low strong stance is a good goal for begginners. More advanced students might shoot for 5-10 mins. However, I've heard that too much static training can be hard on health, ie you leak "chi", whatever that means. But I'm sure people would argue with me on that point.

There ya go...everything I know about horse stance.