Which Style Tai Chi Chaun

[dre_doggX]

I am studying the Yang Lu Chan basic form of Tai jiquan, from Erles book, he also has a book called Reflex Violence, that teaches instinct fighting and such. People say the Cheng Fu version has taken out alot of the Fa-Jing out of the form, and this is what most people know the derviations of the Yang Cheng Fu, intending for healing. but the Yang Lu Chan form which was made by Cheng Fus grandfather Lu Chan, is about dimmak and has all types of fajing. espeacially in its advance levels.

Which style do you do and which you like better.

If you you want to see some of these free books go to.

www.taijiworld.com and click the free downloadable books.

[taijiquan_student]

Zheng Man Qing, Yang (Lu Chan) style, different from Erle's YLC form.

[gazza99]

A book can be good reference, especially when it comes to a long form. But you really need to see the movement. I would recommend at the very least getting the video on it. Erle also has a series of 8 tapes on the one form, Very detailed instructon.
Or find a good taiji teacher in the area....

Gary

[Walter Joyce]

As far as I know, there is nothing to support Erle's claim that the form he practices is the same form as Yang Luchan practiced.

Does anyone know of any historical sources to support his claim?

[Nanking '28]

I study Chen Pan Ling Tai Chi...
I also study Yang Cheng Fu style...

Chen Pan Ling is really cool...

[Brad]

As far as I know, there is nothing to support Erle's claim that the form he practices is the same form as Yang Luchan practiced.

I find it's best to take any claim of YLC Taiji with a grain of salt. So many people claim to teach YLC's original form, yet all teach different things. It's either good or it's not. Yang Cheng Fu is considered by many to be more for health than other styles, while YLC was considered a grade A ass kicker. So it's only natural for people to claim lineage to YLC as he was a famous fighter. It gives them a way to say, "my Taiji is for fighting, not new age spiritual enlightenment and health" etc.

[Brad]

I've tried 4 of the 5 major styles so far over the last couple years. They're all great. Right now, I'm torn between Sun and Chen styles as my favorite. I'm going to try Wu(Hao) next month and then pick one to "major" in.

I'm really interested in Fu style though, but I don't have access to it where I live.

[n0rmann]

I do Hong system Chen Taiji.
I like it because you can see the application in each and every move, and it hurts when it's done to you. Hurts bad. Real bad.

[HuangKaiVun]

I studied various styles of Taijiquan under my sifu Jiang Jianye.

However, I eventually did as he did - compiled my OWN set.

I made a Taiji set for myself consisting of 13 very basic postures, largely corresponding with the Yang and Cheng Man Qing styles. This was because I have some of the harder jings in the other styles I practice.

Actually, the set is 15 movements when I include the beginning and end. I do it in a mostly linear fashion, changing directions when the "Step Back and Repulse Monkey" move comes. I have all 13 moves going in one direction, and then I switch sides and develop the other. Thus I can go either left or right.

The reason I compiled my 13-posture set is because for fighting purposes, I find a simple linear set much more easy to work with. My students seem to find the set graspable and individualizable. I'll be breaking open the individual moves in the class setting in order to drill reflex, reaction, and repetition.

When I open my school, I shall teach my 13-posture Tai Chi set to my students as opposed to the more well known (and much longer) Tai Chi sets.

[dre_doggX]

I was think about doing a 13 posture form. only it also had the five fist of hsing-i, but I think you should just teach the 13 postures first and still teach the full form, because there is so much to tai chi chuan, and we have enough watered down forms as it is.

[dedalus]

Who knows if any "authentic" Yang Luch'an stuff is still around? Or any Cheng Fu, for that matter? Even during their own lifetimes these great martial artists expressed their arts differently at different times, and it seems unrealistic to take a snapshot of short period and say "that's it!", let alone preserve it through the countless understandings and interpretations of its inheritors.

I think all anyone can do is to indicate their teaching lineage, and in the case of those who claim to practice YLC taiji, this usually involves a lineage through Yang Shou Hou. There are quite a few people around with some connection to that particular Yang, amongst them Chen Panling's students (one of whom I recently met and thoroughly admired) and Erle Montaigue, as menioned above. The controversy around Erle seems to stem from the fact that quite a few people doubt his account of having learned from one of Yang Shao Hou's few students (who would have been a classmate of Chen Panling's). If you can't accept good taiji on the grounds of its manifestation before your own eyes, then I suppose that doubt becomes a problem, but for people who want to learn a superb fighting system it's academic. One thing that is worth keeping in mind is that beneath the whole "Old Yang" problem, EM has a very well documented lineage to Yang Cheng Fu and his martial system.

Trying to address Walter's question, I guess that a historian needs to talk to some other YSH inheritors and do some structural comparison, but it doesn't seem as though anyone can be arsed. The main point I wanted to make (and I've urged it many times on this forum) is that authenticity looks respectable when you're talking about lineage, but it's a waste of time if you're talking about preserving a system as it was originally laid down (because it wasn't). Martial arts are about skill - if you're a collector of anything else, you're wasting your time and deceiving your students.

[Shaolin Master]

I am a practitioner of Zhao Bao Taijiquan.

I favour Zhao Bao TJQ because we practise a variety of framework methods and have differing methodologies and combat strategies in addition to those of the other taijiquan.
In addition we have many weapons and a 2man fighting set.

Regards,

ChanLong

[Daniel Madar]

I have done all the major styles except sun.

I specialize in wu jien quan. My secondary is Hao. I started with Hao but took to wu much better.

Go find a teacher. Books and videos are no way to learn, especially as a beginner.

[bob10]

Contrary to some claims the Yang Cheng fu lineage retains fa jiing training in several areas - solo drills of form movement, fast forms, staff form and training and so on, at least through his son Yang Sau Cheung's line.
In fact the large frame form, which was YCF's main form I guess, when done properly, is a foundation for fa jing training. From large frame to small frame.

Claims that "this is what YLC did" should be taken with a pinch of salt wherever they are from.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I agree with Bob on this one. Erle is not a bad man but I have always a little peavish towards his Yang Lu-chan form claims. I feel they are a little unsubstantiated. I would of thought that if anyone would have retained this form it would of been the Yang family members, and maybe they have (I seriously would of liked to of thought so too!). Still on the other hand who knows?!!