Which Style Tai Chi Chaun

[Walter Joyce]

I study the YCF form with Gin Soon Chu, one of Yang Sau Cheungs 3 disciples, and I believe that this lineage has a strong argument for a great similarity with the YCF form. Great effort has been made to see to this.
As for the fa jin expression in this lineage, I am not aware of it, but perhaps that is because I have not been taught it yet. I have pushed with Chu Sifu and both his sons. While they again, may have been taking it easy on me, there was no expression of fa jin such as I felt when I briefly worked with Wang Hei Jun, the Chen stylist, recently.

[HuangKaiVun]

dre_doggx, thanks for the advice!

However, my style is NOT watered down. It's shorter, but traditional kung fu sets are usually incredibly short because that's the only way the moves could be used for combat.

I do have the Hsing Yi 5 elements in there, though I didn't deliberately go out of my way to do it. Yang lineage Taijiquan has all 5 elements already.

For example, "Strum Guitar" can be Hsing I's "Pi Chuan".

[Nick Lo]

Huang

All I can say is wow.
You mastered taiji while studying under the guy who's published videos on every style currently in mainland china, to such an extent that you were able to create your OWN style. I am impressed.

I can't tell if you're insulting our intelligence or if you actually believe this cr@p you post.

~~Keep on diggin~~~6 feet ain't so far down!!~~~

[HuangKaiVun]

I'm but a plane ticket away from your victory, Nick Lo.

I want to see you kick my butt, since you have the real stuff and I'm the fake.

[bob10]

FWIW I once showed Vincent Chu the "YLC" form, he didn't seem overly concerned with it, or that it was anything than another version of the Yang form. He did once show me a short part of something he called the "Old" form, along with a few other Yang forms.

[TkdWarrior]

well i do sun style and Yang competition forms.
about coming to YLC form by erle, i guess he gave some pretty good explanations to his lineage. watever be it, i found Erle a very nice and warm person.
-TkdWarrior-

[Rory]

Hmm I have been studying the full Wu form actually I just got back from shanghai studying with the 3rd generation master (my master is a 5th generation). By far one of the better thing about the Wu style system is that it if much more intact that the yang style with has now become some crappy competition form (yes thats a bad thing) most of the moves are lost in it. But wu style is very nice because it hadnt been as widly taught in the west so for the most part most lineage holders should be farely respectable, the fighting system and the push hands system are also still intact with is nice unlike the yang styles push hands wich have now become some what of a mockery and have began using push hands for health never in Tai chi history has push hands been used for health? Know if you do pursue this path look for a master and make sure they are a lineage holder dont get sold on to some half ass pot head who thinks hes real spiritual. If you want to know more you may e-mail me at Wustyle

thank you rory

[gazza99]

I have only seen and heard bad things in regards to the Wu style, but i havent seen that many (only like 3 teachers), so my points may very well be invalid.

I noticed the Wu style (as I saw it) did not follow the classics, they were double weighted, and bent alot at the waist rotating even while completely bent over, it was in no way a good martial technique, perhaps a good stretch?

I have also been told that the mechanical problems in the Wu style could have been due to either one of the old masters having a crook hip, or it being taught wrong to them on purpose becuase they were Manchurian or something like that? Could you perhaps tell me more? Or at least the correct story as you know it?

Thanks,
Gary

[bob10]

I've often wondered about the bends in some forms. I've also seen similar in one of the Yang forms. AFAIK it's mainly a waist-loosening thing rather than any technique.

[HuangKaiVun]

Push Hands is VERY useful for health - when used PROPERLY.

Testing one's jing, which Push Hands is, helps straighten out one's posture and detect where physical infirmities are.

My student, who has some medical problems, is working with me in Push Hands to relieve an old horse riding injury as well as a recent otitis interna infection. The "Ward Off" posture has proven to be particularly effective in creating the necessary "massage" needed for health improvement.

I don't care whether or not this usage of Push Hands is "traditional" or not. All I know is that my student likes it and it's WORKING.

[dre_doggX]

I have edited my first post with the link, and

you can download his books at this site for free for now.

www.taijiworld.com

[Rory]

Oh okay well firstly let me say that they do not bend but lean foward on most moves instead of standing strait up, we do this for the reason that there is a lot of stress that goes on your lower back muscles when you are in certain positions but when you lean foward you are still using those muscles just not cramping them. Hmm some of the other things you state are probaly from Wu Gong Yi (he was the son of the first wu master). He took the techniques that usally had a meduim-large frame and made them very small, it looked a lot like sun style, but one of the bad things about it were that they purposley tried not to move there lower body that much so there were a lot of funky waist movements. Now that style pretty much exists in Singapore and singapore only most of teh other wu masters do not care for the style or do they acknowledge it as part of there system. Wu style was a system made to follow the classics, the reason that it is now called wu instead of being called yang is the one reason that the master made improvments on it wich Yang Ban-Hou and the other yang masters at the time dissaproved of the change. But in my opinion if you can find a real teacher wu is the way to go

[Shaolin Master]

I think as everyone pays too much attention to forms and health.......they cannot understand each others styles.....

There is no need to practice all major styles as someone exclaimed, there is in no way anyone with enough real skill at the moment to invent their own form (they can change the positions around and the number but not the method), to learn many taiji styles would mean the practitioner did not understand any one of them........ maybe to search but not as a habit should many styles of taiji be done.....

Recently, I have spent time with a Wu style Master (Disciple of Ma Yue Liang) and although I practise Zhao Bao we could see each others techniques and how amazingly similar they were, not to look at but the concept the power methodology and meaning.....like the leaning forwards is the posture in their thought after fajing, and I must say it makes sense when in push hands.......

True practitioners of taiji should have their own style but if their level of understanding they can understand the variations as being nothing more than new interpretations.

Yang style in world is relatively washed out as so many low grade practitioners are teaching it. Wu is less popular but if from a good teacher highly effective.... in push hands and in combat.

In two months time I will visit my uncle Wang Hai Zhou and Zhao Ji Yan in Zhao Bao village again to gain further insights into our framework and these moments are a pleasure....... moments with true taiji practitioners not demostrators.......

As an example, YLC even stated he learnt the art from Chen Style but mastered it in ZHao Bao village........many did not know this...
Wu style also was influenced by the Zhao Bao, Sun style is another derivative of Zhao Bao........Why is this, because it was not the shape they found but the concept the method the realisation......

So practice and study your taiji well all the others will make sense to you in time.......

cheers,
Wu Chan Long
NanChang, JiangXi Prov, PRC

[Shaolin Master]

I think as everyone pays too much attention to forms and health.......they cannot understand each others styles.....

There is no need to practice all major styles as someone exclaimed, there is in no way anyone with enough real skill at the moment to invent their own form (they can change the positions around and the number but not the method), to learn many taiji styles would mean the practitioner did not understand any one of them........ maybe to search but not as a habit should many styles of taiji be done.....

Recently, I have spent time with a Wu style Master (Disciple of Ma Yue Liang) and although I practise Zhao Bao we could see each others techniques and how amazingly similar they were, not to look at but the concept the power methodology and meaning.....like the leaning forwards is the posture in their thought after fajing, and I must say it makes sense when in push hands.......

True practitioners of taiji should have their own style but if their level of understanding they can understand the variations as being nothing more than new interpretations.

Yang style in world is relatively washed out as so many low grade practitioners are teaching it. Wu is less popular but if from a good teacher highly effective.... in push hands and in combat.

In two months time I will visit my uncle Wang Hai Zhou and Zhao Ji Yan in Zhao Bao village again to gain further insights into our framework and these moments are a pleasure....... moments with true taiji practitioners not demostrators.......

As an example, YLC even stated he learnt the art from Chen Style but mastered it in ZHao Bao village........many did not know this...
Wu style also was influenced by the Zhao Bao, Sun style is another derivative of Zhao Bao........Why is this, because it was not the shape they found but the concept the method the realisation......

So practice and study your taiji well all the others will make sense to you in time.......

cheers,
Wu Chan Long
NanChang, JiangXi Prov, PRC

[gazza99]

To quote Rory:

"Oh okay well firstly let me say that they do not bend but lean foward on most moves instead of standing strait up, we do this for the reason that there is a lot of stress that goes on your lower back muscles when you are in certain positions but when you lean foward you are still using those muscles just not cramping them"

You say that Wu was developed around the classics? What I have seen, and what you describe violates those classics.

Here are some quotes from the classics:

"Body Central and upright-the body should be straight and erect, not LEANING to any side" (fundamental key points) (my emphasis by using caps on "leaning"

"The upright body must be stable and comfortable
to be able to sustain an attack from any of the eight directions"

"When the tailbone is centered and straight,
the shen [spirit of vitality] goes through to the headtop"

The Wu style was started by Wu Quan-you, who learned from Yang Ban-hou, so according to you his own teacher did not approve of his modifications and creation of the Wu style itself. I just fail to see how breaking what everyone else in the world of taijiquan knows as basic posture is an improvment?

But perhaps I am incorrect as to the "leaning" you mentioned, it may be too small to make a difference? But the few teachers I saw this was not the case!

best regards,
Gary R.