Pouring TEA for sifu?

[GeneChing]

Urban Tea: I have trained at Shaolin several times, usually going a month at a time. Also I have an extensive background in Bei Shaolin, so it was easier for me to penetrate Shongshan Shaolin. However, it's pretty easy for a foreigner to become an honorary disciple in China, just be dedicated. Just by going to China to train, you give your master great face. It's a big journey. My bai see at my ceremony was not very expensive, cheaper than lessons really.

My master Shi Decheng is in his late thirties. His focus is traditional, but he is competant in modern wushu like pretty much every certified teacher in China is nowadays.

FT & WS: I am Wing Lam's Head Shaolin Instructor and helped him found his company, authoring many of his videos and importing many of the Shaolin goods that he carries. I haven't been teaching for him for the past few months since my limited time has not allowed me to do so. It was either train or teach. Lately I've been training with Sifu Tony Chen. But Sifu Lam is an honorable man so desptie my absence, I retain my position. His head Hung Gar instructor was honored with his picture on the kwoon wall for over a decade after he left. Last I saw, it was still up there.

Sui: Compassion by defination means "to suffer with." Am I asking you to be more compasionate or asking you to be compassionate? Yes. I ask this of everyone, especially myself. I have done nothing to "single you out." Perhaps the others may have, but if you "suffer with them" perhaps you might glean the reason. Pouring tea makes you a servent of tea, and perhaps as the chinese say, "cha chan yi qi" (tea zen are one) so I could see it as an act of compassion. We certainly need as much compassion as we can get these days, so I'll allow any little drop.

grogan: Drinking tea is not gay. Take if from me, I used to live in San Francisco. You don't even know what gay means if you think it has something to do with tea
But I think I'm going to do my next discipel ceremony aussie style. NT bitter, eh? Sounds tasty.

[Sui]

thank you again gene,there are many questions for you shy to the members of this board and keep your feelings to yourself untill now.thank you again.
would you say compassion is to empathaze,as i get this through your explanation.then why would you pour tea to buddha and kwan yin if you are bai-si to your si-fu?which leads me to yet another intresting question,who's idea was it for you to bai lay gung[bai the si-fu in question]?

i will try to be more compassionate but there are some who mis-interpretate it as "merci",which i believe yours gene is closer.am i not being compassoinate by writing this statement?

sorry by your advice to "suffer with them" are you saying i should join to which they suffer?if you are then i can't make sense of that for "i suffer myself".

sui

[grogan]

Originally posted by tri2bmt
Grogan has the best ceremony i've heard. What style do you do?

If I was to say the class would get to crowded so I will refrain.

[Sui]

his style,lol well there are more gays that drink beer than they drink tea so what does that tell ya.hahahahaha "olrighty then"
grogan,its a joke so keep your knickers on,i don't have anything against gays i use to be one myself.hahahahaha but 100 percent reformed.

[Sui]

grogan is your style by any chance"back-door kuen"hahahaha sorry mate couldn't resist.i have nothing better to do than to think what style you do.

sui.

[Rolling_Hand]

Sui,

When the wild bird cries its melody from the treetops,
Its voice carries the message of the Tao.

"Tien Dai, Day Dai, Yan Dai, Tien Yan Hap Yat"

Rolling_Hand

[GeneChing]

Hmm, keep my feelings to myself, hmm. I don't really agree with that. I avoid some topics out of professional courtesy, stuff like who's a fake and what-not. Of course I have my personal opinions on that, but I often have to restrain myself there. However, I like to be open about my feelings, so much so it has given my a tai chi hippy persona here.

Anyway on to your questions, let's see...
Empathy and sympathy are part of compassion surely, but not synonymous. In Buddhism, compassion arises from the understanding of one of our basic tenets - that all life is suffering. You don't have to "join to which they suffer" - you're already there. It's the realization of shared suffering that is important, that we are all connected. Once you see that we're all in it together, and couple this with the notion of karma, you do you best to stop that cycle through compassion. In essence, it is a vehicle of transformation.

Can you be compassionate by posting? Well, that's really not the way it works. I remember a friend of mine who talks of going to Shaolin for a "spiritual boost." It's a really silly notion that demonstrates a lack of understanding of spirituality. You can't be spiritual/compassionate in a single example an expect that to redeem unspiritual/uncompassionate actions. The only absolution comes with constant practice.

Now I didn't pour tea in my ritual because that was not part of my ritual. I bowed as a gesture of subserviance to my master and what the deities symbolize. And I asked my shifu to become his disciple though a traditional intermediary.

[urban tea]

If you expect to go to a place for a spiritual boost, it will not come. YOu have to search without searching. Many times I expect a spiritual boost when I had dinners with important people and it did not come.

You don't need to go to any place for a spiritual experience. Everything you need is right around you. Your backyard, your home, your people or your community. It's a matter of you living in the "now" and just being "awake" to all that's going on around you.

It's just that people don't realize that. It's like a fish who has been swimming in water. He doesn't know that he's actually in water because it surrounds him all the time, procvided that the fish is a male.

[CLOUD ONE]

Nice post and what have you been putting in your tea?

''If you expect to go to a place for a spiritual boost, it will not come''.

The operative word there is to 'expect' although going back to your roots could be enlightening.

So in your experience does pouring tea to Sifu mean anything to you? Why is it that most W.C schools never have 'bai si'?
Did Yip Man's students bai si?

[GeneChing]

More so it's the notion that spirituality is something you can boost like a caffeine boost from a shot of espresso. Actually I do believe that pilgrimages to sacred places and meetings with wise masters can deepen your spirituality, but I wouldn't phrase it like a "boost." Perhaps it's semantics. Then again, perhaps it's essential.

[Sui]

hi rolling hand long time no cantonese?it must be getting better.
but yuans lets just say he's "ga-lay gai"w/c and gets better.lol but hey thanks for the reminder to which heavan is only tomorrow away and good morning to you.


gene,oh so you share your feelings?"professional courtesy" what the hell is that please teach me?is to "restrain" to hold back the flow of things to come?as a publisher should you not voice your opinion,it may make the articles "true" so that pple can relate to them?sorry if it sounds like i'm telling you how to do your job,i'm just asking,i would not be so rude as you are my host.
but does your "tai chi hippy persona" comes from the west,there are other perpectives you know?

so compassion is the bigger picture i see?therefore empathy and sympathy are joined in seperation?no way totally disagree gene and i'd be a fool to agree.why?maybe b/c you are translating a chinese character to english verbs?i could ask what other words join to compassion[seperatly]to make it whole?

"that all life is suffering."so you understand this basic tenet?come on gene thats abit nieve don't you think?even a feeling of this wouldn't draw you to that understanding and worst still there is no proof to that of all is suffering?but never the less a question beyond death hath no answer?
no way is it that, i would say[from my parent's teaching]to be indavidual will break the karma and to connect to buddha is to be buddha?ego must have something to do with it?i'm sure,but i must reconise that ego first and formost..............

spirituality?hmmmm an illusion maybe[bic gimm]could this word be associated to us gene?not to jon and i for power or power traferance down a blade is the little brother to spirituality i'm sure.
more or less has no bearing!

but this thread is pouring tea,does it have to be litteral,as you show of course not.
so are you saying it was your idea?are you saying it just took place or are you saying he would not allow you to pour tea?come don't be shy i won't be rude to you


hear,hear cloud,yip man had students in china before leung sheung etc,did they bai shi some say yes some say no.but there is on his true birthday that some go to his grave to pay homage the "tao way"hmmm makes you think doesn't it?

like i said gene no more or less so no "boost" or "deepen" only that it is!what????

[GeneChing]

OK, let me see if I can respond to your comments in their order of presentation. I'm having a bit of trouble understanding your grammer, so if I misinterpret something, my apologies.

On professional courtesy, well first off, I'm not in the business of exposing fakes. That is a subjective call, relative to the general community. We try to avoid the negative press and focus on the positive stuff. There is already enought negative stuff about martial arts, so we don't air dirty laundry since that would only increase the negativity. I voice my opinion, but I try to focus only on the positive stuff.

The Tai Chi Hippy thing is from another thread on the main forum. It's sort of a running inside joke.

You lost me on your compassion comment. What is your point there?

As for you ego comment, ego is a following precept, after suffering? That's the delusion that must be penetrated to alleviate suffering. Unless we are using the Freudian defination of ego, then it's something different entirely. But in regards to compassion, if the root word 'passion' means 'to suffer' and adding the 'comp' makes it a shared burden, and if all is suffering,
then compassion is an acknowledgement that we are all in it together. Once you get that concept, there's no reason to be rude or shy.

I like your "power traferance down a blade is the little brother to spirituality" comment but I don't have the fogiest about what you mean.

And back on pouring tea, I pour tea for anyone I respect casually, friends, relatives, masters, even strangers, it's just good manners. But it wasn't part of my disciple ritual. However, whenever I eat with my master, of course I pour tea.

Lastly, boost and deepen could certainly be viewed as semantics, but I'm a writer so forgive me my semantics. At least I punctuate

[diego]

All is suffering is just common sence. you may be the richest man of the most elite status and basically noone can **** with you..and you care less about some bum on a sidewalk in nigeria;...well you had better care because in some way such as say his kid may grow poor and rob your kid, so by you not caring and bieng of a welloff existence...eventually in the cycle your inaction will lead to actions that will pull in suffering to the seeds of your actions!.

in example a qoute from rapper The Rza: all you with money//better watch for the money hungry-Straight up!.


"that all life is suffering."so you understand this basic tenet?come on gene thats abit nieve don't you think?even a feeling of this wouldn't draw you to that understanding and worst still there is no proof to that of all is suffering?but never the less a question beyond death hath no answer?
no way is it that, i would say[from my parent's teaching]to be indavidual will break the karma and to connect to buddha is to be buddha?ego must have something to do with it?i'm sure,but i must reconise that ego first and formost..............

[Sui]

"All is suffering is just common sence."oh really who ever you are?what about the few who deny the fact that they suffer eg majority of christians?do they still suffer?if so to whom????


gene,if you don't know then you don't know,but thanks for you explanations to the best of your ability and also i dare say that you are not voicing your opinion now?
if you are lost then aquire a compass from your"master".

either way keep strong and practice well,your freind

sui.

p.s as for my grammar,thanks i will try

[GeneChing]

Well, with the contribution of my dear comrade Diego, this is quickly turning very koanic (rhymes w/colonic, for good reason.) Philosophy is often best discussed as such, especially on the forum. Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box.

If you don't know, then you don't know, but do you know you don't know? If you don't know you don't know, then you might think you know. Or might not, I don't know. I know what I know, if you know what I mean.

So Diego, hitting w/yo RZA fist, eh? Take my Emma strike!