all 9/11 and related american political threads, merged here

[David Jamieson]

From what I understand bldg 7 had a hole in it about 20 stories high according to photos and firefighters statements about teh state of it before it's collapse. It had an entire corner missing as well.

a lot of the photos at conspiracy sites like that neglect to show that angle.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, that is what I thought too.

Also, the shorter building might not have been big enough to collapse from fire damage, due to the fact that they just did not have enough weight bearing down on thier structure.

[Merryprankster]

From what I understand bldg 7 had a hole in it about 20 stories high according to photos and firefighters statements about teh state of it before it's collapse. It had an entire corner missing as well.

Correct.

a lot of the photos at conspiracy sites like that neglect to show that angle.

Correct.

Also, the shorter building might not have been big enough to collapse from fire damage, due to the fact that they just did not have enough weight bearing down on thier structure.

We have a winner.

[bustr]

Notice on this video how one corner of the building collapses. Then about 5 seconds later the middle of the roof sinks indicating that the center columns had been blown and the building collapses.

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evide.../wtc_7_cbs.mpg

[lkfmdc]

my vote

delete thread

ban poster

stick to martial art related topics

(or merge this with the Falun BS thread and then all teh nuts can just talk to eachother)

[Yao Sing]

Funny how certain OT threads are ok and others prompt calls for deletion and banning.

[bustr]

my vote

delete thread

ban poster

stick to martial art related topics

(or merge this with the Falun BS thread and then all teh nuts can just talk to eachother)

You could just put me on your ignore list as I have now done to you. Or better yet you could just not click this thread (There's a novel idea) if it bothers you that much.

[Royal Dragon]

Notice on this video how one corner of the building collapses. Then about 5 seconds later the middle of the roof sinks indicating that the center columns had been blown and the building collapses.

Reply]
Notice how the CORNER of the building was blown out by debris crashing into it from the two towers? Gee, I onder why the corner collasped first!?!

I agree, just delete this.

[Yao Sing]

Notice on this video how one corner of the building collapses. Then about 5 seconds later the middle of the roof sinks indicating that the center columns had been blown and the building collapses.

Notice how the CORNER of the building was blown out by debris crashing into it from the two towers? Gee, I onder why the corner collasped first!?!

Royal Dragon, you didn't comment on the center collapsing. Could you explain how debris taking out the corner would cause the center to collapse and the rest of the floors in unison?

Also, if the few peeps that don't want to talk this subject REALLY don't want to talk about it why do you keep on talking about it?

Why the call to delete the thread? Why would you not want questions asked and answered about an event such as this?

[hung-le]

Not that this has anything to do with Chinese martial arts.....and it should be moved. This post is a serious power rant to boot!!! However, I believe we are all only 6 people away from each other….and maybe by saying something it will start a chain reaction…

First….. Don't believe in some nutty conspiracy theory. Bunk...all of it. As to why the other buildings besides the world trade towers collapsed ... talk to any civil engineer in your area and have him/her explain it to you.

What gets me… By worrying about non-existent crap like this…people attention to detail (as far as political thought) goes astray…Throw out “terrorism”…Throw out Government screw-ups in relation to major natural disasters…All of it amounts to nothing more than a bunch of diversions………

Ever notice why your pay checked hasn’t really changed in years, yet the cost of a car or house has sky rocketed?

Ever wonder why a family can’t make it unless both join the work force?

This nation’s biggest problem is “WE ARE FOR SALE” With out sourcing jobs and selling out to foreign investors. We are getting “carpet bagged” by our very own Fu#!’en politicians …Been going on since the late seventies….this belief that the American economy is an ever plentiful resource of cash to be exploited by all…is seriously flawed. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty of the crime ” It’s causing the destruction of the middle class. Our ports have been sold, Toll roads, our tunnels , national monuments and bridges you name it!…it’s happen in every major city. Sold to the highest bidder.. What the Fuc#*!! Could someone please tell me how public property could be sold in the first place? What are next, our parks and lakes?

The fallacy of “Out sourcing to compete” what a joke. To compete with who?” Companies that reside within nations that don’t have free markets? Like China or Taiwan? “Out sourcing to compete “ is a lie so fat cats can get even richer by exploiting some rice farmer in BFE. Riddle me this …ever wonder why if they are paying some ext banana farmer from BFE .50 cents an hour how come the cost of the product never goes down?

America has a 480 billion-trade deficit (that’s 480 billion dollars every year leaving the country never to return! And its going up as I write this) I as a tax paying citizen didn’t know I was a cheap prostitute…Are you? Or do you like working in the service industry? Because it is now the largest work force in our nation... Meanwhile, these companies ( and the heads of state’s from the countries that these firms resides in,) spend major dollars lobbying in Washington…

While we squabble over “gay marriages, abortion, Are you for the war ..Not for the war…was their WMD or wasn’t their….Or concocting conspiracy theories…etc… We the citizen of this great nation our getting slipped the wet wily in the azz from our very own leaders trying to Sell us on a Global economy propted up by greedy businessmen …

Ok I’m done, enough of my power rant …..

Sorry I put you all thru that…. Won't happen again....

Maybe this will help if I add a Chinese connection. Anyone here know the History of China in the 1800's? looks like we are heading in that direction

[rogue]

Anybody else watching "Inside the Twin Towers" on Discovery?

[canglong]

It had an entire corner missing as well.

Then the building would not fall in on itself at free fall speed.

[rogue]

It's good as we approach the 5th anniversary to be reminded of the bravery and struggle that went on inside those buildings. I really don't think any physical memorial could represent that day.

[Merryprankster]

Then the building would not fall in on itself at free fall speed.

It didn't. None of the buildings fell on themselves at free fall speed. The seismic data graphs make that quite clear. I posted a link to them somewhere in this post.

Incidentally, explosives would also not cause the entire building to collapse at free-fall speed, unless they simultaneously disintegrated every support structure in the building.

So much for that theory.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7___silverstein.html

This is also useful: http://www.debunking911.com/ It is, however, rather caustic. I am more interested in the papers and sources.

For wtc7 info. The pictures don't lie...unless of course, they were faked...how DEEP does this rabbit hole go?!

For the curious, I don't walk blind into this. I have a pretty solid grasp of the power of the forces involved, thanks to 3 years spent in and around ships. I've seen synthetic line snap back rip through aluminum hulls, watched HY-100 steel warp, and the gouge in solid steel where a turbine blade embedded itself after the governor failed and it blew itself apart. I've seen 2 inch power take off shafts made of tool hardened steel sheer cleanly in two.

I've seen metal BURN and done a little welding. I've seen videos of "normal" household type fires reach 1000 degrees F and flash off the furniture in another room, although it was 20 feet away.

The "impossibilities" presented by conspiracy theorists trying to debunk 9/11 are, based on my experiences, quite possible. Discussions with a couple of architects and a couple civil engineers also reinforce these opinions. Finally, my thesis was on Al Qaida and Associated Movement support networks, which were highly developed and quite sophisticated as far back as 1995 thanks to an emergent blend of North African European economic/social know-how and AQ training and manpower.

Put simply, I might know a little something about the issue - less so, admittedly, about the engineering as while I have exposure, I do not claim total expertise, but certainly with regards to whether or not this "rag-tag" group could have done it. This "rag-tag" group was, in fact, highly sophisticated, well educated on many levels, and had international reach, fully exploiting the openness fostered by the current wave of globalization to gain access to money, weapons, people and places. Incidentally, to not believe they could have done it smacks of paternalism of the worst kind.

I realize that this view of AQ is the "official story," and that some are going to immediately tune out. But know this - it is the official story because the evidence for it is overwhelming. It relies on reports in the open press in foreign newspapers, from well before 9/11, and from European - especially French - terrorism experts. Rohan Gunaratna - a Sri Lankan who is no friend to U.S. policy - confirms the analysis of AQ's reach and capabilities post-9/11 as new evidence came to light, and the RAND corporation and the Pew religious forum both explore AQ as a religio-social phenomenon, and reach the same sorts of conclusions about their reach, drive and abilities.

AQ and its affiliated movements had successfully hit us before several times, and quite frankly we avoided major disaster at least once by the skin of our teeth (Millenium Plot, Ahmed Ressam). And you can see the evolution in their tactics and thinking. VBIEDs to bombing an airport to using the airplanes themselves. Not a particularly great leap. On 9/11, they got ambitious - so audacious that it worked - precisely because we underestimated them.

This isn't some patriotic rant. I'm not going to finish with "the greatest security threat to the United States," or "grave danger," or "We'll never let it happen again."

It WILL happen again. More people will die, and as callous as it sounds, life will continue. 9/11 was a tremendous tragedy that all non-insane people mourn. We mourn the victims, the heroes, and the conditions that encouraged the attackers to make the morally reprehensible choices they made. But it did not threaten peace and prosperity, and it did not challenge our national security - but rather our safety and sense of being somehow "apart" from this sort of stuff based on our geography. We haven't really addressed "border security" before. That's a bit of a new concern the way we've cast it - other countries have had that as one of the PRIMARY purposes of their armed forces.

But these are not existential threats, not physically or culturally. Hopefully we will all eventually keep that in mind...

[Kymus]

Everytime anybody asks him a question (or even if they don't).

You could make the same sketch with kymus up there, only he would shout

"STRAWMAN"

You are adept at bullsh!t MP. Want me to show how the shoe fit each time? Honestly, for someone that lectures others on debate, I would think that you'd stay away from such phoney arguments

LOL at "partisan" since you have zero idea what my political leanings are.

It's transparent.

Again, you've brought nothing to the party but a bunch of what you perceive to be holes in the official story and what you perceive to be circumstantial evidence.

For which you have done the same. You have offered a typical "debunker blog" for whichd I'm willing to betd you never knew about almost any of the issues contained therein before glancing upon. That's the funny thing with you government conspiracy theorists, you know 1% of the issues and tell other people they're wrong.

You can't/won't offer up a coherent alternative theory of the crime, yet appear (since you won't come out and say it) to make the leap that "Gee, the government must have been involved."

For which I base upon 2 years of independant research outside of petty partisan politics which you and Rogue subscribe to. Sorry MP, I actually enjoy research, and like to know whether or not I am correct. Why do you think I actually read the so-called debunker blogs?

There is, in truth, not one shred of conclusive evidence in the conspiracy theorists favor.

You just proved to me that you know NOTHING about this subject. But again, how would you even know? You've spent hardly any time researching this issue for yourself, and I know for a fact that you haven't a faintest clue what information the 9/11 Truth Movement has provided. You're still out there in make-believe land making the claim that everyone makes a theory and reaches to find evidence to support it.

It's a giant circular argument, resting on the unproven assumption that the government lied

Assumption that the gov lied? AHAHAHAHHA I wasn't aware that the press fabricated all the news articles about the French, Germans, Israelis, Italians, and others warning about 9/11.

....and the corollary assumption that the thousands of people that would have had to have been involved kept quiet

Yup, when Operation Northwoods, Operation Gladio, Project SHAD, Operation Ajax, etc. came around, everyone involved spilled the beans. Elvis didn't do no drugs

having no clear motivation to do so

See, again you show complete ignorance on this issue. Motivation would be directly profiting from the crime. But you wouldn't know about that because it seems that you're allergic to researching issues (it's much easier to close your eyes and dismiss it all at once )

and that the OVERWHELMING majority of academics and experts of the world who have studied this issue in depth, and agree with the official story arc are all either corrupted or stupid.

Again you are ignorant of the experts in the science, political, and intelligence fields that disagree with it.

Pathetic.

yes, it is really pathetic that you claim I'm wrong but offer nothing but phoney arguments and hypocricy.

Never mind that the argument construction is begging the question anyway. The government lies so we can't trust the official story, so the official story proves the government lied about 9/11...

Tell me specifically, who has formulated their opinions this way. Let's see you lie again

For the record, when I paint in "broad brush strokes," I am doing exactly that. IN GENERAL, those are the sorts of things that conspiracy theorists do. Whether or not they specifically apply TO YOU or any other person is a case by case basis.

How would you know? You don't like indepth research. I'm sorry, I've spent years on both sides of this issue; I know these people a lot better than you do. I don't need to create infactual theorisations about large groups of people I disagree with.

I will admit that what you lack in logic

Hypocricy; amazing.

despite your appeals to jargon (I used it to mock you - and you will also note that I EXPLAINED what it meant in a previous thread)

And I explained my "jargon" in detail as well when you cried about it. I've debated politics a lot; but you're the first to create these conspiracy theories about jargon.

and your insistence that leaps of faith constitute an argument

You are such a ****ing liar. Call me what you want, bu don't ****ing lie about me. I'd expect you to have more class than that. I base everything on what i have researched from mainstream, international, and independant media. You must have missed my post where I talked about that, huh? When I theorise - unlike you - I understand that it is theory, and not fact; and I will openly admit to it to make sure that everyone understands that it is just theory IMO.

you make up for in passion.

This is what I don't get about you. You banter on and on about these "jargon" conspiracy theories, offer blatant theorisations to prove yourself right, offer up a whole dish of rhetoric, but then later try to be "honest" and level with me. Do you want an intellectual conversation, or a mud fight?

Enjoy the rest of this thread. It will soon be relegated to the scrapheap of history, along with 9/11 conspiracy, where they both belong.

Yup. Operation Northwoods, Operation Ajax, Tuskegee Study, Project Shad, Operation Gladio... Nah, they never existed. Our government loves us . Close your eyes MP (oh way they're already closed! silly me )