all 9/11 and related american political threads, merged here

[jethro]

I actualy started that rummur btw....

no you didn't cause you didn't know this----------- raymond chow, lau kar leung, and run run shaw have made sure that there are plenty of ma's trained to go beat down everybody on earth and they are gonna tape it and give it to their son's so they can be rich but the shaw son already has plans to take the footage and just keep it for himself.

[chud]

The 9/11 victims' families have some questions that they would like the government to answer: http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

[Radhnoti]

Strife - "...why would the american government do it? to make sure they have the public backing them as they waltz into the cradle of life and steal all its oil."

The gas prices around here seem to indicate that you are wrong. The only thing I ever found the U.S. trying to do with the oil is set things up so the Iraqis could sell it on the world market...which is a far cry from "stealing". Yeah, it helps with the worldwide price to introduce more of a commodity to the market, but if it helps the people who OWN it (Iraqis) it's not stealing.

Otherwise, *gulp* I agree with David.

[Merryprankster]

Strife,

A lot of people think it looked like a controlled demolition - primarily because they aren't familiar with the physics of the situation.

You will see all sorts of stuff about the melting point of steel, why did it drop straight down, etc.

Here are some basic facts that may help you in your research:

The melting point of steel isn't important. In welding, you use an annealing flame to soften metal. Annealing flames are low temp, but when you are done, you can bend the metal quite easily. JP-8 burns at very high temps - even a common household fire can reach 1000 F or more very easily. If you soften load bearing steel even a little, it will no longer be rigid and will collapse quite easily.

The WTCs were designed in a way that basically held all the parts together with tension. It was a revolutionary design. The external walls were actually under tension, with the supporting columns in the center of the building. As the supporting columns softened and began to collapse, they pulled the structure in and down with them. Yes, I realize it was the 80 somethingth floor, but there were many floors above. The rest of the building - although not softened - was not designed to handle the insane stresses of 1/4 of the building falling straight down on top of it.

This is actually, if you think about it, a brilliant way to ensure damage is kept to a minimum in a densely populated area. By designing a building that collapses straight down, you reduce the footprint of the landing - imagine the catastrophe that would have occured if the building was built in a way that encouraged toppling.

Anyway, there are many websites that can show you the actual physics involved and show how it is not only possible, but PROBABLE, that the building would collapse the way it did.

I understand there are also many websites that question all of this. That is where critical thinking comes in. My experiences with metal and onboard ships and at firefighting schools have taught me the dangers of Fuel Oil fires, and the amazing - and common - things they can do - a JP-5 fire in open air can warp HY-100, which is a super strong, super hard steel that is designed to be heat resistant and tough - and that's at a temp far lower than what the WTC's would have experienced.

[Kymus]

guy, conspiracy sites don't get much street cred here.

you gotta use the maintsream media if you're gonna make any quotes or the like about the tinfoil hat situations around the world.

If you spent some time on the site, you'd see that they quote numerous mainstream, international, and independant media. Their 9/11 archive contains about 600 of these.

[Kymus]

Personally, I don't see how it could be an inside job. With the goal in mind, any number of measures could have been taken rather than strike at our own national treasures.
It just seems like a dumb idea.

It's like shooting your own left arm, and then blaming it on someone else as an excuses to shoot them too. It would be better to shoot the wall, so you have a bullet hole to refere to, and then make that claim. You don't get hurt that way.

I just don't see ANYONE in this country being THAT cold blooded.

take a look into the Hegelian Dialectic, Reichstage Fire, Nero's fire in Rome, Operation Northwoods, Operation Gladio, Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, the list keeps growing.

[Kymus]

9/11 was indeed an inside job. It was Bush's reichstag fire to bring about Martial Law. I've studdied this issue for nearly two years. I've looked at litterally hundreds of different news articles, and have seen probably over a dozen doccumentaries on the subject (excluding Michael Moore's very pathetic film). But irregardless of this, people just love to turn off their brains on turn on the disinfo to try to discredit this. Don't listen to me, or to anyone. Research the issue for yourself and learn the facts. The government's conspiracy theory doesn't hold up (not to mention that many details are either impropable or impossible).

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com

edit: before anyone starts on the usual bullsh!t claim disinfo wagon, why don't I make a few things clear:

1) I'm not a liberal
2) No I don't like Clinton
3) No it wasn't ok when Clinton did it, and it's not okay now
4) John Kerry is a douche bag
5) I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I can doccument everything I claim. When I delve into theories and assumptions, I readily admit to it
6) Calling me names doesn't strengthen your argument in the least
7) I'm not paranoid
8) I'm not a Democrat and I don't support the Democratic Party
9) I've spent countless hours researching this. If you tell me I'm "wrong", I will be expecting a detailed analysis complete with sources.

on your marks, get set, flame!

[Skarbromantis]

I also agree,

Take some time to really see what Alax Jones is saying, he's the man......where do you think Micheal Moore got all his info from for his mainstream movie, stole it from this guy???

Watch his documentry 911: The Road to Tyranny...see what you think after watching that..

Skard1

[Kymus]

I also agree,

Take some time to really see what Alax Jones is saying, he's the man......where do you think Micheal Moore got all his info from for his mainstream movie, stole it from this guy???

Watch his documentry 911: The Road to Tyranny...see what you think after watching that..

Skard1

I think it should be added that 911RTT is Bi-partisan in its message and exposes Bill Clinton for the criminal he was as well.

The 2hr Doccumentary film can be viewed here

[lkfmdc]

The conspiracy that everyone is hiding and no one wants to talk about his how Falun Gong in China actually funded the 9-11 attack and trained the pilots that drove the plans into the towers. IN the clouds you can see the face of General Li. It's all true! Just google "Falun and 9-11 funding" and you can read about it on the internet. Which of course makes it 100% true.

[Kymus]

The conspiracy that everyone is hiding and no one wants to talk about his how Falun Gong in China actually funded the 9-11 attack and trained the pilots that drove the plans into the towers. IN the clouds you can see the face of General Li. It's all true! Just google "Falun and 9-11 funding" and you can read about it on the internet. Which of course makes it 100% true.

it's funny how people have to resort to such poor disinformation tactics like this to attempt to prove the government's conspiracy theory.

What you refuse to acknowledge in your lack of knowledge of either side of this issue is that the claims made by myself and others whom agree with me are backed by numerous media sources. If I wanted to get my info from "some dude" who "says it's so", I'd turn on the TV and listen to the discredited pundits banter on all day about Democrats this and Republicans that.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Kymus,
LKFMDC is just on his annual "I hate Falun Gong" 2006 tour...



Of course he is right, though.

FG is for nancy boys and geriatrics.

[neilhytholt]

it's funny how people have to resort to such poor disinformation tactics like this to attempt to prove the government's conspiracy theory.

What you refuse to acknowledge in your lack of knowledge of either side of this issue is that the claims made by myself and others whom agree with me are backed by numerous media sources. If I wanted to get my info from "some dude" who "says it's so", I'd turn on the TV and listen to the discredited pundits banter on all day about Democrats this and Republicans that.

It's kindof funny how everybody's on about this now just like they were with the Kennedy assassination.

Not saying you're right or wrong, just that it seems like this spread a lot faster the the Kennedy thing, evidently because of the Internet.

Basically there are 2 possibilities:

a) It was a big conspiracy, and the CIA is way, way, way more smart and powerful than we think they are.
b) It was not a conspiracy, and the CIA is a bunch of bungling idiots.

Either way, it makes one worry, doesn't it?

[Kymus]

It's kindof funny how everybody's on about this now just like they were with the Kennedy assassination.

Not saying you're right or wrong, just that it seems like this spread a lot faster the the Kennedy thing, evidently because of the Internet.

Basically there are 2 possibilities:

a) It was a big conspiracy, and the CIA is way, way, way more smart and powerful than we think they are.
b) It was not a conspiracy, and the CIA is a bunch of bungling idiots.

Either way, it makes one worry, doesn't it?

Thank you for an insightful reply Neil. It's not often I see these on such a subject. Generally when someone sees this sort of thread their reasoning skills turn to mush and they start belting out the first piece of crap they can think of. Irregardless though, let me ask you a simple question.

We have litterally 2 dozen (25 in total I believe) intelligence gathering agencies, and every time an attack like this happens, it's blamed on incompetence. Do you find this as implausable as I do? I know Andreas Von Buelow (see original link for more information about this intelligence expert) does. I'm not trying to say that because it's implausable that means I'm right. I'm just trying some critical thinking I guess.

The CIA works in strange ways my friend. I talked to my step father who is a former Green Berret (also a conservative christian fundamentalist. So he's not likely to believe the same things I do) about the fact that they were caught meeting with bin Laden in Dubai in july of 2001 (le figuro times). He told me that based on his eperience, he's not surprised. So we are left with 1 side which assumes they were conspiring with him on behalf of whomever, or the other side that assumes that they were there to try to work out a deal with him. Both sides are very odd.

edit: are you familiar with Operation Northwoods?

[neilhytholt]

Thank you for an insightful reply Neil. It's not often I see these on such a subject. Generally when someone sees this sort of thread their reasoning skills turn to mush and they start belting out the first piece of crap they can think of. Irregardless though, let me ask you a simple question.

edit: are you familiar with Operation Northwoods?

No, I'm not familiar with that operation.

It just seems like a weird pattern that the people we give money to always seem to turn against us. Saddam Hussein was our guy against Iran, then he turns against us. Taliban and Osama are our guys, then they turn against us, etc. Not to mention the entire fact that 9/11 happened coincidentally during the annual meeting of Carlyle and Bush and Osama bin Laden's family being major stakeholders.

Do they really expect me to believe, that with their spy satellites and intelligence gathering, they couldn't figure out that there weren't any WMDs in Iraq? I could have told you that (and did tell many people that), just based upon my various internet searches before the war and watching the money trails, without any satellite evidence at all.

I prefer to hope, I guess, that these interests if they exist, whatever they are are, are benevolent. This is a topic that I don't really want to think very much about. I have no control over what these people are doing, and I don't really want to wind up in some secret detention area anywhere.