San Shou Ignorance

[MightyB]

I don't do anything remotely computer related on weekends, so I've just seen this post.

The reason I like San Shou and why I've converted to it as my sole form of competition is that it gives me a chance to really mix it up.

I don't get that chance in class because I'm an assistant instructer and I seriously out match the newbies. It would be like picking fights with my 8 year old nephew and expecting to get anything productive out of it if I was to seriously spar any of the students in my class.

Also, when dealing with Si Hing or Si Fu, I have a natural tendancy to hold back. I don't want to mix it up seriously because of respect, and, no matter how good I get, my Sifu would just wipe the floor with me. The dude is super human fast.

So San Shou gives me the opportunity to go all out without restrictions.

Most of the people that knock San Shou here haven't tried it.

I like to think of it as another important training device in my development as a martial artist. I get so much out of it just by competing. I really don't care for "this is better than that" type of arguments like this thread has become. Who cares if a throw looks like wrestling or a punch looks like boxing if it works. That's why I say that there isn't a serious fighter who isn't MMA. I would even venture to say that all major MMA people who are successful in the UFC and such are actually the best examples of Bruce Lee's concept of Jeet Kune Do.

[neptunesfall]

When did the chinese kung fu people start wrestling? - ralek

a few thousand years ago, dipsh*t. it's called shuai chiao.

[CD Lee]

...a few thousand years ago, dipsh*t. it's called shuai chiao.

Yeah, thats pretty funny. I recently did a Bagua throwing seminar. If Ralek was there, he would have definately said, "You guys are using Judo!" Bagua when throwing uses slightly different methods to do a throw than judo of JJ. I had major problems trying not to throw using a traditional judo hip throw (which I learned and practiced when younger). The Bagua set up the intitial throwing position very similarly, but pulled the opponents unsteady base over the Bagua's steady base using rotation of the torso with the upper leg as a fulcrum vesus using the hip as the fulcrum and throwing the guy over the hip. But at first, I could not see the difference.

The point is that Kung Fu can throw, trip, or lock up people. Anybody could call it whatever they think they see. I think Roy Jones stole Tsuan Chuan from Xingyi, but he thinks it is an uppercut from western boxing. hehehe

[jungle-mania]

Has anyone seen a competition where sanshou competes muay thai? I have seen one so far, but the fight was give away to the muay thai fighter since he had more experience and the san shou fighter seemed like a fish out of the water fighting in the ring. However, if anyone knows of a good fight please tell me.

[Liokault]

[URL=http://www.sanshou.co.uk/]San Shou circuit in UK[/UR


I have fought against thai boxers on at least one occasion in the circuit above.

It was san shou rules but very few Thai boxers in the UK fight with elbows anyway.

The san shou is run by Barbera Antonio and is very good. She invites a very varied cross section of martial artists to her events and gets a good turn out.

It should also be pointed out that san shou with elbows and knees is starting to happen more and more in the UK.

[Suntzu]

yeah I got hit… um I mean… fought in a fight with knees… I don’t like them… i think they take away from the throws… but than again I'm biased…

[Liokault]

You dont need to worry about the knees....there are so many throwing opertunities that open up when someone starts kneeing.....so much so i just about stoped doing it in my class now.

Elbows are a bit differant though.

[ShaolinTiger00]

liokault brings up an excllent point about knees.
Think about this.

If opponent is attempting to knee you, he is in very close range and has just lifted one leg into the air. He has just made a risk. Big score or big loss. As long as your posture/stance is upright and not bent over, chances are you are going to block this with many options or just forego the block and attempt a counter attack throw or leg sweep or kick to the inside of his support leg.

Why are you discussing knees and san shou in the same breath? Knees are never legal in san shou. However professional san DA use them and elbows. Fights between san da and muay thai have become quite popular. King of Sanda fights.

[Suntzu]

Knees are never legal in san shou.

well smack me on da azz and call me momma… but I know what a knee looks/and feels like and I was aquainted with it during a san shou match… san da... san shou... whatever...

You dont need to worry about the knees....

if u say so...

there are so many throwing opertunities that open up when someone starts kneeing.....

i'm gonna work on that... but for now... i dont like 'em

P.S. on second thot… don’t smack me on da azz…San Shou Knees.... well sorta

[SanShou Guru]

There have been three amateur San Shou tournaments that allowed knees (so San Da rules) in the US so far. The two Kung Fu Super Star events in New Orleans and the Super Fights at Cung Le’s Event two months ago. To tell you how new knees are, Cung’s IKF world title fight in December last year was no knees and Rudi Ott’s last month had knees.

Knees are no big deal in San Shou because if you don’t want to use them it is pretty easy to stop them under San Shou rules. They grab your around the neck you grab them around the stomach and go belly to belly then start walking. Try it and see how hard it is to land a hard knee. It does make wrestling more interesting because the “Sprawl” throw defense can get you killed with knees. It makes you pay more attention. We have started incorporating knees but mostly defense against now until we have time to really concentrate on incorporating them into our system.

Shaolin Tiger it’s nice to hear from you again. How is your wife doing? Julio Trujillo is starting a Baltimore San Shou team I can get you his contact info if you want.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Hey momma..

but I know what a knee looks/and feels like and I was aquainted with it during a san shou match… san da... san shou... whatever...

Doesn't make it a legal technique. whatever - If you don't know the rules, you'll be in for a long night...

Sanshou in Baltimore.. Do you know my friends Jullio Trujilo or Aaron Honeycut? I'll never forget the bus ride we took when we traveled to fight at Shawn Liu's US open in '98. At every truck stop we'd get out stretch our legs and beat on each other! Good guys and good fighters.

How about Richard Pritchett? Haven't seen him in a few years.

[SanShou Guru]

I know both Honeycutt and Julio quite well. We have fought with them and against them and I have judged with Honeycutt. My wife, who is a PT, worked on him during the ’95 worlds when he had five Wars in the Ring.

I’ve help in Julio’s corner and have let him borrow equipment for fights and gone out after events with him (well as far as dinner he was on his own after that). Prichet I sort of know but he is pretty quiet and I have never really talked to him.

[fa_jing]

Well, I've seen that you can be thrown if you try to knee to the midsection. Although, they are devastating if they land. But what about Knees to the thighs? I think they are very low risk and really mess up your opponent's clinch game.

[lkfmdc]

San Shou with knees? NYKK does not train or fight with knees

(yes, insert large amount of sarcasm here)

but they are pretty recently added to US competitions, though King of San Da had knees starting in 99 or so

Against Thailand, with knees and elbows, China and San Da have still won the majority of fights, Muay Thai is very open to throws, though of course I still wish the Chinese trained the knee more

[ShaolinTiger00]

SS Guru,

Always a pleasure to "see" you sir. I'm doing well. Practicing judo and bjj daily and trying to run whenever possible.

My wife is well. thank you.

Actually I'm going to see Jullio & co. this fall. Mike Barry is hosting a seminar in Oct. Shawn Liu is coming in and is going to be teaching some things. Gary has asked me to come in and give some demonstrations of judo throwing as it pertains to sanshou for some of the young fighters.


I stand corrected about amateur/knee comment but that has not been the standard format.