Self Mastery and Energy Development

[seung ga faat]

Kung fu or Martial arts teach you alot about your limitations and fears;using the arena of skilled artisans or the kung class and the positions found in the classic chinese family.
Using the above items the martial and the family are combined to work towards a common goal.
KFO members, what do you think that goal is or should be?
I believe it should be Self-mastery and energy development to insure the future of the family and the community.What do you think?
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[TaiChiStorm]

That is really an interesting theme you re asking for.
I am still a beginner in MA. When I started, I had done hundrets of different sports already. (also successfully) But never, I had felt such a motivation to "reach my goals" as in MA. ........ The thing is: I don't really know my goals. I mean, I just enjoy learning new forms, new movements etc. I love reading about the philosophy and history of it. But I never think about what I want to reach with my training. Only one thing I am sure about: I want to be as good as I can. And I will try to reach the highest level for my individuality.
Of course ,as you said, self mastery and energy development are the HIGHEST levels anyone in the world can reach. That comes from the Buddhist and Taoist philosophy. I personally believe, there are only a few people in the world who are able to reach this level. You would have to spend your whole life on it!!
Finally........there is a saying:

"the way is the aim"

Greets,
TCS

[MightyB]

Can't there be no point? No goal. Can't it be just for the heck of it?

Why does everybody here want to be Yoda?

[Cody]

Personal goal dynamics:
The goals seemingly evolve from what a person is and has the ability to become and what he/she believes are valid standards. With the addition of knowledge and ability, reevaluation of some or all prior learning of standards and individual/common goals will occur to some degree even if just to look and nod "yes." It could be that the goals of a person become focussed with the training. Sometimes it's just a matter of fine tuning and at other times it looks more extreme, as the true nature of the person emerges with self-empowerment, because it is given leave to do that.

I think that some mistake self mastery with self empowerment (the ability To Do More). I mean this literally, in terms of practical application of the terms in ones life. I can Do this, hence I have grown in self mastery. What it might mean is that one can do something that expresses the self, but might not indicate mastery at all, or, indeed, be its opposite. The power, the energy work, might not be as controlled as it appears, even with philosophical or religious influence. All this on an individual basis, and also in terms of group (community) dynamics. too much for me to fathom adequately.

Personal goals and Common goals:
I think that the common goal needs to be an endpoint of simpler processes which develop in individuals, something that can be grasped with less room for error. The personal and common need to have a commonality, room to engage in cooperative behavior even in difficult situations.

I know my goal has been actualization of the self, a feeling of being completely alive, in conjunction with total accountability, and being as responsible as I can manage. This leads to a goal that can be shared with others, approaching a common goal of well-being for everyone (an ideal). The concepts and practice of accountability and responsibility for thoughts and deeds, those which show and those which are hidden, can approach the threshold of construction of a common goal. However, commitment to the personal goals I have indicated falls way short in the populace. As this does, so shall the attempt at a common goal become shakey at best. Yet, all agree that it is necessary, for the clan or a city to prosper and have a degree of stability.

My feeling is that if one states the goal of self mastery soon, possibly imposing many constraints, without taking the time to develop responsibility for thoughts and feelings from the very beginning based on who you are, then one might think that a higher degree of mastery or control has actually occurred than is the case. The mastery can come from control, but needs to go to where less active control is needed. I think that this aspect is often supplied by long lists of rules and laws which, in my view, might obstruct individual and group development. Some rules are necessary to avoid constant anarchy. I know that my opinion is not what many have in mind. Not saying one is wrong or right; it's just how I see things.

So, the goals as I see it are individual development to fullest actualization while continuing to learn; full accountability and responsibility within and outside of the family and community as social units evolve; determining for the self what is right in each situation and taking responsibility for mistakes. To realize that mastery never ceases to become a relative state, and dwelling too much on this goal, can lead in another direction, imo.

The common goal could be said to be well-being, described here as what is right, for each, and for all.
One can say that it's difficult to reach common ground, and to maintain it. That is the ideal in my view, but I haven't the means to understand it adequately.
Man's competitive nature and limited available resources of equal quality, make for choices in favor of one group over another, and in those choices we can lose sight of the goal. In this is involved justice, an ideal term. problem is we're dealing in idealism wherever we turn. Hence, my backing up from that to what I have stated earlier.

best I can do for now,
Cody

[Chang Style Novice]

> Why does everybody here want to be Yoda?

It's the sex appeal, yo!

[SevenStar]

I'm with mighty b on this one - I'm not looking for self mastery or some ultimate enlightenment. I train because I like to train. If I did have a goal though, it wouldn't be anything metaphysical, it'd be something like being as situationally aware and as apt to defend myself as possible. It would be really cool to be able to do a chi blast though!

[neptunesfall]

yoda, i am not.

[apoweyn]

I believe it should be Self-mastery and energy development to insure the future of the family and the community.What do you think?

what, precisely, do you mean by that though? personally, i'm not adverse to discussions about self mastery, etc. i just want to know what this means in concrete terms.

this isn't an accusation, but i think we manage to obscure a lot of things in a veil of mysticism. sometimes we do it because we just haven't thought deeply enough about what we're saying. sometimes it's marketing. and sometimes the guy saying it may know precisely what he means... but i, the reader, don't.

so would you mind telling me exactly what is meant by developing energy? mastering the self? ensuring the future of family and community? i think it would go a long way in clearing up this discussion.


stuart b.

[Nexus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I'm with mighty b on this one - I'm not looking for self mastery or some ultimate enlightenment. I train because I like to train. If I did have a goal though, it wouldn't be anything metaphysical, it'd be something like being as situationally aware and as apt to defend myself as possible. It would be really cool to be able to do a chi blast though!

Indeed, searching for the shirt you are already wearing can be a waste of time. Best to discover you are wearing it when the training sweat causes it to stick to your skin.

[seung ga faat]

CMA has a saying which goes: Heart, Energy and then
Kung fu. With out the development of the afore mentioned you may know how but,not when and why.
As I have said in past posts martial skill is like a loaded gun and if you place that gun into hands of person without direction or personal control then you have......
Novice,paper disciple,true disciple & inheritor, which would you give the gun too ?
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[apoweyn]

seung ga faat,

i appreciate the general point you're trying to make. but i'm not a big fan of philosophical vagaries. so what do you mean by 'heart, energy, and then kung fu'? i get the general idea. but what's the concrete execution?

you teach kung fu. what do you teach on a new student's first day? presumably you teach kung fu technique, yeah? or do you teach exercises designed to increase heart? (and i assume by heart you're referring to a moral framework, so please correct me if i'm wrong.) and energy? qigong? do you do that first?

it seems to me that it would take many lessons solely devoted to heart and energy in order to get them 'stowed away' prior to teaching kung fu. is that the way that you teach? if not, what's the plan?

just curious.


stuart b.

[No_Know]

Heart might refer to What they say at least in American sports. The will to fight on--perserverance.

Energy might refer to Work ethic. Willing to put-in the hours And doing it!

The and then Kung-Fu might mean that you really learned your stuff. That such a person got it. Not merely can do some things or tried once in a while but finished the program as outlined. Gave 110%. And Can validly represent that Style/Art/System/ School as that person is the embodiment of the teachings there-in/there-of.~

"Kung fu or Martial arts teach you alot about your limitations and fears;using the arena of skilled artisans or the kung class and the positions found in the classic chinese family.
Using the above items the martial and the family are combined to work towards a common goal.
KFO members, what do you think that goal is or should be?
I believe it should be Self-mastery and energy development to insure the future of the family and the community.What do you think?"


Considering those items, Things have already been decided. In the classic Chinese family. There is an order of leadership. If that is included then the family heads would already have been directing that particular family.

Some families base their unity on having enemies (other families or another family). If you don't Know the goal, then you don't need to concern yourself With the goal. The Family heads are considering everthing they need to, to properly lead the family (which forms the community) using at least perhaps the resources which you had mentiioned.

Classic Chinese family? Don't question your elders (seniors). If you were incorrect in action you would be informed or corrected. If you haven't, then you are working within the allowed parameters of the family rulership~. So (needle-and-thread), MIGHTY B, Sevenstar and others are fine to persue self-interests or just because. If they were out of line with the family leadership, then they would have been stopped, corrected, talked to, informed, bannished (but still family).

Being a sifu, you would theoretically be considered a head of this community. As you asked the question. Aparantly not. Sifus is big in the Kung-Fu family and community. But Big brother does not necessarily mean first (oldest) brother, nor significantly oldEr brother. And For as much as the parents are considered head of families. Your parents have parents. So being Father does not automatically authorize you the authoruity of leadership. Until you are a father with out an elder.

If your intent was along the lines of unifying (to what ends I No_Know), it's there if that's the goal. You seem to do good work (satellite program in the schools and being in DC area). Unite with your fine example of being a sifu. You are at least part of the goal. And doing your part.

Nexus:
"Indeed, searching for the shirt you are already wearing can be a waste of time. Best to discover you are wearing it when the training sweat causes it to stick to your skin."

Not all would go to class without their shirt~. Some won't train without their shirt. Searching one might realize that they are wearing the shirt. Searching might be requried to gain the awareness. Some discover through searching.

[seung ga faat]

I stated what my goals are in terms used by martial artist all the time. I am interested in hearing other goals or other ways of looking at CMA.
What teach on the first day is the basics. What the student learns is what I am talking about. The student learns he/she can not be deter by pain and fear of the unknown. After the student studies a few weeks and with reassurance the develope a new level of confidence. The first step towards Heart at that level of
understanding
But I am interested in your views not in re-hearing mine.
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[apoweyn]

Originally posted by seung ga faat
I stated what my goals are in terms used by martial artist all the time. I am interested in hearing other goals or other ways of looking at CMA.

well, i'm not CMA. but i'll go ahead and assume you want to hear it anyway.

What teach on the first day is the basics. What the student learns is what I am talking about. The student learns he/she can not be deter by pain and fear of the unknown. After the student studies a few weeks and with reassurance the develope a new level of confidence. The first step towards Heart at that level of
understanding

right. but the student also learns to throw a good punch or kick, right? or form a good stance. or whatever. in other words, you don't learn heart or energy before kung fu, but concurrently with it. that's an important distinction, to my mind. a lot of the qualities you're espousing are a natural consequence of training rather than a natural precursor to training (as would be implied by the statement, 'heart and energy before kung fu').

But I am interested in your views not in re-hearing mine.

well, i like to understand a question like this before i go about answering it. assuming the point of the question is to improve understanding of one another, understanding the question itself is a good place to start.

i don't think i have an overarching objective. not one that can be succinctly expressed. self mastery is fine. i suppose self exploration would do too.

but i think martial artists make a mistake in trying to overcodify everything. self confidence, self perfection, concentration, blah, blah, blah. i think we run the risk of losing sight of what any of that means.

take the ads in the yellow pages. how many schools cite self confidence as a benefit of training? and how many times has that process been explained in common sensical, straightforward language? why will little billy be more self confident after taking kung fu (karate, taekwondo, etc.)? i don't believe it's enough to say, 'because that's a benefit of kung fu.' that question needs to be explored. everything does.

so what's my aim? to do this. and to explore the ideas, feelings, and relationships that result from it. i spar. if i'm aggressive, i tend to win. if i'm passive, i tend to loose. so what does that say about me? about relationships in general? when is that appropriate and when is it not? are there ways to persevere in conflict that don't involve aggression? blah, blah, blah...

martial arts is a huge experience. and personally i'm not inclined or able to package it up. does that make sense?


stuart b.

[Former castleva]

I totally agree with insuring stable community on your part,anyone can work for that.