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Thread: This One Should Get People Riled Up...

  1. #31
    Originally posted by Xebsball


    Ok, maybe i was rude when i just said your were wrong (in capital letters, bold and in red )
    When you talk about buddhist enlightenment, remember the Chan/Zen view of the things is not the only one. Other branches of buddhism, such as the Tibetan ones disagree with the "instantaneous enlightment" and do yes pratice the "gradual enlightenment".
    If prana was around he could give you a lot more details, other than that i tell you to do some research on what the other lineages (not Zen, not Chan) think of this matter.
    There is even the branch of zen "soto zen" which practices gradual enlightenment.

  2. #32
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    "Enlightenment is inconcievable."

    So is sex to someone who has never had it, yet once you are there, it makes perfect sense.

  3. #33
    Originally posted by Nexus
    "Enlightenment is inconcievable."

    So is sex to someone who has never had it, yet once you are there, it makes perfect sense.
    Yes. If you are fully enlightened, not only can you conceive of it, but you can lead other beings towards it. In fact, you can teach every type of sentient being by simply making one perfect sound.

  4. #34
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    Wink Oh, I don't know

    I kind of like the "pure land" sect's idea: everyone is already enlightened. Enlightment consists of everybody being neurotic as h ell and suffering for it, but every once in awhile, someone happens to be nice, so the power of enlightment rests with the other, and yourself to be that other.

    So, enlightment, like h ell, is other people....depressing, isn't it?

    Oh, sex. That's what I said.
    IA! IA! CTHULHU FHTAGN!

    "The gods be praised! My misfortunes surpass even my expectation!" -Jean Racine

    I have the copyrights for Ouing Xun(tm), Veng Stun (tm), & Yengxun (tm). If you use these, you owe me $

  5. #35

    Re: Oh, I don't know

    Originally posted by {i^(
    I kind of like the "pure land" sect's idea: everyone is already enlightened. Enlightment consists of everybody being neurotic as h ell and suffering for it, but every once in awhile, someone happens to be nice, so the power of enlightment rests with the other, and yourself to be that other.

    So, enlightment, like h ell, is other people....depressing, isn't it?

    Oh, sex. That's what I said.
    I think you misunderstand the pure land school entirely. there are countless pure land texts available free of charge if you interested. lots of them you can even find online. try www.buddhanet.net

    No school of Buddhism teaches that things rely on others. Everything is created in your mind only. Pure land is also a gradual path, using rebirth in the Pure Land as a stepping stone towards enlightenment.

    I could try to explain it further with my limited understanding, but with so many texts available by masters who are infinately more cultivated than me, I'm afraid I'd only confuse the matter.

  6. #36
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    Smile

    "there are countless pure land texts available free of charge if you interested. "

    Thanks, but no thank you. I'm doing all I can to forget about enlightenment...no interest in it, really.
    IA! IA! CTHULHU FHTAGN!

    "The gods be praised! My misfortunes surpass even my expectation!" -Jean Racine

    I have the copyrights for Ouing Xun(tm), Veng Stun (tm), & Yengxun (tm). If you use these, you owe me $

  7. #37
    Originally posted by {i^(
    "there are countless pure land texts available free of charge if you interested. "

    Thanks, but no thank you. I'm doing all I can to forget about enlightenment...no interest in it, really.
    <shrug> i'm not trying to push anything on you, you simply stated that you liked the pure land school. i was just saying that if you wanted to understand it there are plenty of books that explain it. I didn't mean to offend you or be pushy.

  8. #38
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    Smile nonsense

    Very kind. No offense taken.

    Besides, it's not like I was clear or anything. I'm simply on a differing path and I like it that way. FWIW, I think Mighty B has the right idea, if that's what you're into.

    But, hey, don't listen to me. C ya!
    IA! IA! CTHULHU FHTAGN!

    "The gods be praised! My misfortunes surpass even my expectation!" -Jean Racine

    I have the copyrights for Ouing Xun(tm), Veng Stun (tm), & Yengxun (tm). If you use these, you owe me $

  9. #39
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    Re: Re: Oh, I don't know

    Originally posted by Dreadnaught


    I think you misunderstand the pure land school entirely. there are countless pure land texts available free of charge if you interested. lots of them you can even find online. try www.buddhanet.net

    No school of Buddhism teaches that things rely on others. Everything is created in your mind only. Pure land is also a gradual path, using rebirth in the Pure Land as a stepping stone towards enlightenment.

    I could try to explain it further with my limited understanding, but with so many texts available by masters who are infinately more cultivated than me, I'm afraid I'd only confuse the matter.
    Please explain what you mean by being more cultivated than you... What if you became "enlightened" today... Would there still be masters more cultivated than you?

  10. #40

    Re: nonsense

    Originally posted by {i^(
    Very kind. No offense taken.

    Besides, it's not like I was clear or anything. I'm simply on a differing path and I like it that way. FWIW, I think Mighty B has the right idea, if that's what you're into.

    But, hey, don't listen to me. C ya!
    hahah, i think this thread DID get my riled up. anyways, I just love talking about this stuff, and even arguing about it.

  11. #41
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    Re: nonsense

    Originally posted by {i^(
    Very kind. No offense taken.

    Besides, it's not like I was clear or anything. I'm simply on a differing path and I like it that way. FWIW, I think Mighty B has the right idea, if that's what you're into.

    But, hey, don't listen to me. C ya!
    If you don't want others to listen, don't say anything.

  12. #42
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    the "epiphany" is a form of small truth realized.
    enlightenment is a sustenance of truths realized.
    study of the factors that allow for sustained epiphany in any given situation is not necessarily a waste of time.

    If we hold this view ( study=waste of time ) then sustenance of enlightenment will not be true.

    it is the nature within each of us to "realize" things in moments of epiphany or complete understanding of the factors involved in a brief point in time. To sustain this requires study, to understand completely is knowledge. This knowledge can then lead to enlightenment.

    The no-mind is a state of mind but not necessarily "enlightenment".

    The sudden school of enlightenment or "soto" prescribes that through meditation on the true nature of oneself, one achieves epiphanies about the world around them and how they relate to it.
    With continuous study and meditation, these epiphanies occur more often. Eventually, much is understood, ergo enlightenment.

    peace
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  13. #43
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    Dear Kung Lek,

    The no-mind is a state of mind but not necessarily "enlightenment".
    This is a good point to bring up. No matter how developed or refined one's meditative skills, it does not necessarily equal enlightenment.

  14. #44
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    Eventually, much is understood, ergo enlightenment.
    We can also say that eventually 'nothing' is understood, ergo enlightenment.

  15. #45
    Braden Guest
    MightyB

    "Enlightenment, if it exists, doesn't come gradually. It's supposably all at once in what the Japanese call..."

    Yes, there are traditions that say it comes all at once. There are also those that say otherwise.

    "The Chinese would call it...No Mind"

    No mind is not the same as enlightenment.

    "It really is thought without reflection or consequence."

    I do not believe this is an adequate description of either no mind, nor enlightenment.

    "'if you see Buddha, it's not Buddha. If you feel Buddha, it's not Buddha...' This is to suggest that trying to achieve enlightenment through training is a waste of time..."

    Are you sure?

    "A mind that doesn't hold on to anything so that it is free to exist and understand everything."

    This is not the same as the definition you gave above.

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