This One Should Get People Riled Up...

Braden · 09-19-2002, 05:40 PM

GeneChing

"braden - Christianity without Christ - interesting concept, eh? Ever study Gnosticism?"

Quite a bit.

I think if Christians were more investigative with 'affiliations' they are told to make in their religion ('asking about Christ outside of Christianity'), they would be more able to understand what, exactly, the message was that Christ brought to the Jews (it would help if more of them read the New Testament too). This would allow them to tease apart the specific cultural tradition we have been handed as Christianity (more accurately described as judeo-christianity) and what Christianity itself actually is (findamentally not a cultural practice). With this understanding, the nature of gnosticism can be grasped. I would argue that, 'politics of the victor' aside, neoplatonist-christianity and gnostic-christianity are more properly the religious traditions of my culture, descended, as it is, from the Greeks and not the Jews.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but I didn't want to belabor the point further.

**Nexus** · 09-19-2002, 05:47 PM

Braden,

What message did Christ bring to the Jews? Do you bring the same message?

**Chang Style Novice** · 09-19-2002, 06:07 PM

My message for the Jews is:

"Eat! What, my matzoh ball soup isn't good enough for you anymore? What girl is going to want a skinny little thing like you? Get nice and fat and prosperous, and then the shishkas will come running, am I right? Have a knish, too."

PS: I am allowed to make this joke on account of my own Red Sea Pedestrian heritage.

**{i^(** · 09-19-2002, 06:12 PM

I would much rather, !much rather!, that Xians NOT take their religion seriously. That's happened before.

And that everyone stay far, far away from religion as a whole....

Spirituality, Ok, that's one thing. Rituality, though...nope.

Other than that, have any of you read any of Rene Guenon's works on reincarnation? Basically said, 'can't be'. Not here, anyway...what's so whoop-de-doo about HERE (and being human)? Nada. For all we know, there are living SOUNDS- much cooler to be that, I'd think. Anyhow, ole Rene (if I have him right) thought that we'd keep going through all possible lives and realities, thoughout time, never coming back to the same experience, in the infinitude of possible realities. No ghosts, no life after death, in the usual sense...

(oh, I'm also 'allowed' the joke. pleaztameetcha, stop with the staring already)

Braden · 09-19-2002, 06:51 PM

rofl. I want some of whatever Chang SN had today.

{i^(

When I say religion, I mean properly spirituality. Religion is only, properly, related to one's relationship with the divine - probably what you mean by spirituality. What becomes confused with religion proper is cultural artifacts, but those become confused with 'everything proper', so it's no surprise. As for ritual - as we are, we're a kind of machine specialized for certain kinds of tasks. If we want to 'do' other kinds of tasks, we need to trick ourselves a little - ritual. Ritual -> mysticism -> spirituality -> religion. Of course, those nasty cultural artifacts come up and stuff like people thinking ritual -> ritual starts to happen

IMHO, of course.

As for Xtian's taking their religion too seriously and trouble starting; that is exactly a concern I was addressing.

**Nexus** · 09-19-2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
My message for the Jews is:

"Eat! What, my matzoh ball soup isn't good enough for you anymore? What girl is going to want a skinny little thing like you? Get nice and fat and prosperous, and then the shishkas will come running, am I right? Have a knish, too."

PS: I am allowed to make this joke on account of my own Red Sea Pedestrian heritage.

The tears in my eyes could turn the red sea clear, keep the laughter abroad

**mantis108** · 09-19-2002, 08:55 PM

I just have one question. Where the heck is Prana?

Mantis108

**dre** · 09-19-2002, 09:12 PM

Prana = Qi , Chi etc

OR

A very expensive lin eof clothes.

**{i^(** · 09-20-2002, 05:55 AM

Braden-
I get your point and all, I just can't agree that religion is an important thing to have, nor that people should be involved with it. The cultural artifacts you speak of include racism, political platforms, and elitism- all part of the meme-complex (www.churchofvirus.com/lexicon.html) of religion- that keeps it fluid and a going concern for the priests. It's little more than a disease. Xians and others, when they do take their religions seriously, always start trouble. And when they're ignorant, trouble still comes. I'm not trying to be offensive- I just can't bring myself to agree.

As for Guenon- I should add that I don't believe in it, I just wanted to throw it into the mix. I'm alot closer to atheist/nihilist/iconoclast (in the original sense), but I find a lot of spirituality and truth even in that. I admit it's not for everyone. At base, though, the goal of Nirvana is a form of nihilism, admitted or not.

**Dreadnaught** · 09-20-2002, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Nexus
What is the point of becoming a Buddha?

You wouldn't be hitting your thumb with a hammer all the time.

**Chang Style Novice** · 09-20-2002, 07:17 AM

Ha!

Will buddhahood keep me from forgetting the phone bill, too?

**KC Elbows** · 09-20-2002, 07:26 AM

Hey, this buddhahood thing sounds great! Where can I buy one?

**Dreadnaught** · 09-20-2002, 07:35 AM

Not only can I promise you that, but if you become a Buddha, I promise you will make COLD HARD CASH. that's right, i said COLD HARD CASH. Did you know that as a Buddha you are entitled to ONE BILLION DOLLARS?! You heard me correctly. Sign up today!

As for Guenon- I should add that I don't believe in it, I just wanted to throw it into the mix. I'm alot closer to atheist/nihilist/iconoclast (in the original sense), but I find a lot of spirituality and truth even in that. I admit it's not for everyone. At base, though, the goal of Nirvana is a form of nihilism, admitted or not.

{i^(,

I'm interested in hearing more about your philosophy ... do you mean a mix of atheist/nihilist/iconoclast? i don't know much about what those mean to someone practically speaking.

**Dreadnaught** · 09-20-2002, 07:55 AM

Nexus,

I think you make a good point though. Do I need my philosophy to be so complicated? ideally, no.

**{i^(** · 09-20-2002, 08:12 AM

Iconoclast= 'icon smashers', roughly. I'm a mocker- and that's a public service to all the religious amongst me: kind of like a white blood cell that keeps others from getting too riled up (nice reference to this thread...). Nihilism simply is the profound belief in nothingness, entropy, The Void, futility, etc. It gives me comfort and happiness, staring into The Void like that.

So, to play the role: My philosophy: No philosophy! My religion: No religion!

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