KIAI!/sounds in kung-fu technique

[Former castleva]

Everybody has seen a "karate movie" in which someone flips out and screams while striking,more experienced know the meaning of this,how it happens and it does in dojo.
Kiai is much appreaciated in arts like karate but is not often spoken about in KF,or do I go all wrong?
Besides breathing out,using kiai (picking this from japanese it can mean "fighting spirit" but is commonly referred to as a "sound" in MA originally said to have used to crush opponent´s confidence and guard)
is believed to strengthen one´s attack and focus the energies,this is not supported by science but is used anyway and is there for reason.
Here I´ll be showing some examples of what I´ve picked up from the way.:
In white crane there are many sounds,one such sound is "sa" which is a "mean" sound which describes attitude of no-mercy and spirit of killing.
There seem to be various sounds for different attacks which seem to fit to kung-fu category.
Here´s some hung kuen/gar feeling then;
While striking with a crane beak,one uses the sound "op" meant to focus energy from solar plexus (known as middle dan tien so I just wonder if it has something to do with that...) and lead it to hands.
For tiger claw there is "fu" when using single tiger claw strike somehow drawing power from abdomen/dan tien to hand(s) again.

This thread only scratches the surface of this subject and I hope we can make some discussion out of this.
I´d like to ask if you think vocal sounds should be included and if "oh yeah" should they be included in combat application and do they have value?
Any single input appreciated.

[No_Know]

Fu can mean tiger but is not the sound I recognize as being made for a tiger claw strike. Hua is the sound for tiger claw strikes in Kung-Fu (wide standard).

Besides breathing properly and intimidation there is reassurance. The sound should build confidence in actual combat.~ Breathing properly refers to aligning the internal structure with the external structure during particular strikes.

[norther practitioner]

There are a few sounds in a couple of our forms, but not many. In our fourth fist form there is a hing ha....hing on inhale, ha on the exhale.....a few hop in some forms I learned in another system a while back.

[Felipe Bido]

Choy Li fut has 5 types of sound. And in Xinyi Liuhequan there's the "Yi" sound.

I have heard some Xingyi practicioners yell "Hua!" while striking. But it's like an expelling of air, and not a real "yell"

[joedoe]

Ngor Chor has a shout similar to the Kiai in Karate. We usually use it when practising Tai Chor forms.

We also use the Lion's roar, and the Tiger's roar in various forms.

[Shadow Dragon]

The way that I understand the proper Kiai from my JMA buddies, is that it is supposed to be quiet more hissing like.

None of the big screaming you see now, it is supposed to be a way of channeling and focusing the Ki/Chi/Qi.

But than BL was also known for making lots of noises in his movies.

Cheers.

[Lisa]

"None of the big screaming you see now, it is supposed to be a way of channeling and focusing the Ki/Chi/Qi."


I can see why the yelling would be used, as far as focusing your breath and such.

But when I took Tae Kwon Do as a child, they told me to yell. They never explained why. I had no idea why I was doing it, and it didn't seem like many people there did. And at tournaments I've seen people (mostly lower level karate or tkd practitioners) yell for no apparent reason in sparring. Not a focused yell, but a big "AHHHHHHHH!" as they charged at their opponent. I'm assuming they did it because someone at their school told them to do it but never explained why, as was the case in my tkd class. Or they thought it was intimidating... it occasionally happened in rugby games when I used to play (which didn't work that well because they'd be out of breath by the time they got to you).

What I'm wondering is, is it more common to hear just the big screaming than it is to hear people actually make the noises for a reason?

Lisa

[Shadow Dragon]

I think that a lot of the screaming is now done for flash during demoes and they like.

There are acutally 2 forms of Kiai, quiet ones and the loud ones that are supposed to shock/immobilise the Opponent and gain you a slight advantage.

Cheers.

[SevenStar]

from my experience, there a several different yells used in CMA. the various yells correspond to various organs in the body. some of the sounds are

ha
hey
oy

there are others to, but I can't think of them right now.

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by Lisa
I can see why the yelling would be used, as far as focusing your breath and such.

But when I took Tae Kwon Do as a child, they told me to yell. They never explained why. I had no idea why I was doing it, and it didn't seem like many people there did.

Yelling makes you breathe. Often people will forget to breathe in a fight scenario, so yelling makes sure you are still sucking in air.

Just watch a kendo match - they yell at each other all the time. Very interesting!!

Back to the original question :-

On heavy strikes we exhale with a sound that sounds a lot like 'eight' but it is somewhat truncated. It's just the sound we make when the air is quickly exhaled. Surprisingly enough, when we toured to China, a Shaolin school instructor told us to use the same sound.

[anton]

Yeah I always assumed the yelling in kendo was to put the opponent off.

But some of the "kiai"ing in JMA (particularly Karate) kata demos is just ridiculous, the kiai will go for a bout 10 seconds after the punch it accompanied has finished, the guy jst stands there with his fist extended going: "...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by anton
Yeah I always assumed the yelling in kendo was to put the opponent off.

Yeah, probably that too. But the breathing is definitely a good side-effect.

But some of the "kiai"ing in JMA (particularly Karate) kata demos is just ridiculous, the kiai will go for a bout 10 seconds after the punch it accompanied has finished, the guy jst stands there with his fist extended going: "...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"

....then turns his back while still yelling and holding hand up and doesn't realise that his reverse punch was actually deflected as his opponent scored with a back fist to the head. lol.

[Helicopter]

In our schools version of Tit Sin Kuen (Iron wire boxing) there's 16 sounds. I'm not at that level yet so I know v. little about them.
But they are;
The sound of reverse abdominal breathing,
5 animals sounds and
5 emotional sounds each with a yin and yang aspect.

We've used the 'herrT!' sound in class to focus a punch but I don't where it fits into the 16.

I think I read somewhere that the Japanese 'Kiai' was in the upper lungs and therefore considered bad practice by CMA. (?)

[Crimson Phoenix]

In white crane the sound is used in conjonction with the jing to givee it a certain quality...let me explain: first there is the sound that is formed when exhaling from the bottom of the lungs during jings, which sounds like "hoch" in german...it is the raw noise of air that flows wen your ribcage is totally relaxed even if you do a very strong jing. Some praticionners of white crane add a sort of singing, hissing quality to it, imitating the cry of a crane. It usually is quite surprising for the opponent (who wonders what the hell is going on). Also, this kind of singing hiss can be used when inhaling (all the other ones are mostly used on exhale) and/or blocking, in a kind of fashion to store energy, or maybe get the best synchronisation between breath and technique to render it effective...Here's for the offensive sounds, used on jings: there is the "HA!" sound, that is much yang, it's the common shout during fajing...there's "HE!", that is somewhate more yin than "ha", used to issue jing yet saving energy for later just in case the attack is not decisive or there's a counter or anything.
Then there's the much feared "SA!" sound. It sounds like the way "death" or "die" is pronounced in many chinese languages, and has a vicious hissing quality to it...you just can't use the SA sound and smile, its hissing makes you look vicious and feel like it. It kinda twists your mental scheme into a "either you or me" state of mind...I guess that's what makes it efficient, it seems to raise up your emotional level to a cold, determined killing mood. It is a much unfriendly and uncourteous sound, that should never bee used during training or sparring. The legend says that it was very rude and offfensive to use this sound, and that it was used ONLY in the case that you wanted your opponent to die, and wanted him to know it.
That's all I know about that topic, and I'm aware that there must be a lot I totally ignore and haven't heard of in my white crane sub-style.
Also, there is a white crane substyle called "singing (or shouting) crane" that heavily enforced different sounds for different jings and has a whole theory about that (hence the name I guess). But I don't know anything about it.
I hope this little bit of infos gave you any insights...

[Sho]

There are various yelling expressions in for example Choy Lee Fut, such as "waak" for a tiger claw strike and "dik" for a kick.

Usually in wushu, more specifically Changquan and weapon forms, these sound expressions are made with the clothes and weapons rather than yelling. So the "kiais" are replaced with swooshy-slashy effects generated using the uniform and the weapons.