KIAI!/sounds in kung-fu technique

[Former castleva]

Thanks a lot for the replies.
There is a bunch of stuff I´d like to stick to and chat about but right now I´d like to say that sound "wah" is used when striking with double tiger claw,a bit like "waak" eh?
I could dig those white crane kiai´s up from "shaolin white crane" book,maybe I´ll do.Those that you mentioned Crimson Phoenix,sound familiar.

Couple of things I think and feel like I know about kiai is that those long screams you mentioned that kids pull off while imitating Bruce Lee&MA are said to be of no value,while short explosive sound like "ah" "ha" whatever is good,and in kicking slightly longer like "ee" or something,phonetics seem to matter.
Then again kiai is good for creating a mental disturbance,temprorary shock to your opponent which you can use to your advantage,and it it is said to help with fighting your own fear.

[MightyB]

I used to practice Yama****a style Shorin Ryu. We used a kiai that sounded like "hoots". My instructor explained that it was supposed to be gutteral and come from the diaphram/dan tien region. If it hurt the vocal chords or came from the chest, you were doing it wrong. The idea was more than just the usual confidence/intimidation thing, he explained that I was trying to empty the lungs so that I couldn't get the wind knocked out of me when I was attacking and vulnerable to a counter attack.

Sometimes I feel myself exhaling hard through the nose like a boxer when striking, and grunting out a kiai like sound when I execute a holding/clinching type of throw. It feels good to do it and helps with intimidating the opponent and gives me confidence. I'll grunt out some ol' "hoots" and "ha's" if I'm executing a powerful strike or kick.

[MightyB]

That's funny. You can't write "Yamash i ta" on this forum.

[Leto]

Most of the yelling in kendo is calling out the target of the strike as it is being performed.

'Men!'(helmet) 'Kote!'(gauntlet) 'Do!'(chest plate) 'Tsuki!' (throat)

The rest of the yelling is to intimidate the opponent, and build/show your fighting spirit.

In karate, our kaia was always a short, loud burst, accompanying a single strike, without any particular sound it was supposed to have. It wasn't yelling "kiai", or anything else. Just a shout.

[zen_celt]

In the Japanese arts, I have been told that the kiai is to focus the breathing and energy into your strike. The idea is to breathe from the abdomen and focus the internal energy into your attack the moment you make contact. this tightens the abs and fist sending more external force into your strike, reminds you to breathe, expels all energy in the body at impact, and freaks out your opponent. There are stories in JMA of masters who could paralyze opponents with their kiai and even awake people from unconsciousness.
As far as the hiss, I think that's to expel energy during slow training movements(at least that's how we use them) and to keep from using all your force during a sparring match. I'm not sure about that though.
In CLF, we had different sounds for different strikes, partly to focus energy and, I was told, to identify who you were in combat. Supposedly CLF has style specific sounds that would immediately clue in other CLF students as to who you were.
In practicality of modern, untrained, combat, the yell wakes you up, gets you breathing and freaks out the opponent. This was the purpose of the Confederate scream during the U.S. Civil War. In the days of the celts, there were clan and race war cries that scared the heck out of the opposing armies(they did other, more frightening things too) and got oxygen flowing. It also can add some strength to wha you're doing as it mat aid in adrenaline. Yelling in combat is a natural thing and it would seem that MA harnesses this natural phenomenon in a structured fashion.
Just my two cents
-ZC

[Turiyan]

Here´s some hung kuen/gar feeling then;
While striking with a crane beak,one uses the sound "op" meant to focus energy from solar plexus (known as middle dan tien so I just wonder if it has something to do with that...) and lead it to hands.
For tiger claw there is "fu" when using single tiger claw strike somehow drawing power from abdomen/dan tien to hand(s) again.

This thread only scratches the surface of this subject and I hope we can make some discussion out of this.
I´d like to ask if you think vocal sounds should be included and if "oh yeah" should they be included in combat application and do they have value?
Any single input appreciated. [/B]

Why so interested? Writing a book?

The middle dan tien is near the heart, not the solar plexus. The sound for the middle dan tien is the Hah sound. Like when you explode the yin heart chi into the jing.... But i'm sure you knew that already..

The hah sound resonates with the heart energy, and the heart is the true center, and is therefore the center of all the organ sounds. So you really only need to know one sound. The one that lies at the center of the emotional spectra.

The six sounds are based on basic speech/vowel sounds. Thats it. No secrets. "Forget what you heard".

Real power sounds have at least 3 dimentions with a hidden 4th dimention, kind of like the "hidden" 5th/6th/7th intervals. Like the silent M vowel in sanskrit, which is about 639cps (eg. G#).

With out a center, there is no music. Drumming isnt music. Its rhythm to produce harmony (read as "so the other idiots can figure out what to do and when")

The true center eliminates all sound. Crystalized sound is matter. Dissonant vibrations cause dissolution of matter (Ie: Sharp 5th interval eg. Diabolus in musica). The cycle is going up or down. This is why the Taoists said that "down-up" is the cycle of man, and since man dies, this is not a "Taoist way".

In other words, the most powerful sound is silence, or rather not-sound. That is what is meant by "truth is better than silence".

"Chanting the (primordial sound) is better than sacrifice, if inaudible, it is 100 more powerful than chanting, if merely mental, it is regarded as 1000 more powerful than chanting"
--Manusmritmi

"Drummers are arrogant because there are so few of them"
--Unknown guitar player

[Former castleva]

"Why so interested? Writing a book?

The middle dan tien is near the heart, not the solar plexus. The sound for the middle dan tien is the Hah sound. Like when you explode the yin heart chi into the jing.... But i'm sure you knew that already..

The hah sound resonates with the heart energy, and the heart is the true center, and is therefore the center of all the organ sounds. So you really only need to know one sound. The one that lies at the center of the emotional spectra.

The six sounds are based on basic speech/vowel sounds. Thats it. No secrets. "Forget what you heard".

Real power sounds have at least 3 dimentions with a hidden 4th dimention, kind of like the "hidden" 5th/6th/7th intervals. Like the silent M vowel in sanskrit, which is about 639cps (eg. G#).

With out a center, there is no music. Drumming isnt music. Its rhythm to produce harmony (read as "so the other idiots can figure out what to do and when")

The true center eliminates all sound. Crystalized sound is matter. Dissonant vibrations cause dissolution of matter (Ie: Sharp 5th interval eg. Diabolus in musica). The cycle is going up or down. This is why the Taoists said that "down-up" is the cycle of man, and since man dies, this is not a "Taoist way".

In other words, the most powerful sound is silence, or rather not-sound. That is what is meant by "truth is better than silence".

"Chanting the (primordial sound) is better than sacrifice, if inaudible, it is 100 more powerful than chanting, if merely mental, it is regarded as 1000 more powerful than chanting"
--Manusmritmi

"Drummers are arrogant because there are so few of them"
--Unknown guitar player"

I might write a book if I get your support.

Honestly,are you a musician?
I don´t really understand too much about your words etc.
I know that heart is the centre organ and spiritual center in chinese but I´ve heard middle dan tien referred to as solar plexus in some cases.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[Chang Style Novice]

"Drumming isnt music. "

You are an idiot.