Tibetan Kung Fu Styles

[diego]

Ego explian to me a effective style & how so...

[Turiyan]

Originally posted by
Does anyone know if the present Dalai Lama practises Lama Kung Fu, or any other style of Kung Fu for that matter?

DL, out of disrespect for his spurious title, is of the "yellow hat" sect. Black hat are the ones that train the martial art and are the lowest caste. Yellow hat can downgrade to black hat and take on their dutys if they choose to, but its not to "train martial arts" to be cool.

And why on earth would "god" need martial arts in the first place? Or bodyguards or glasses for that matter....

[Turiyan]

Chinese martial arts history is full of challenge matches. However, one stands up well above all the others and can be verified because it was chronicled in the Cantonese newspapers and is still widely discussed in TCMA circles.

*THE* definitive news source.... What name and location for the regulatory agency or body on ethics and practice for media professionals in hong kong like the "board" for jurspridence in the western tradition?

A few problems:

1) South china and SE asia has absolutley no literary tradition. Instead, an oral tradition. Remember that game "arab telephone"?

2) Most people trained in the traditional and canoical usage of mandarin chinese from a real scholastic institution cannot read cantonese written in newspapers.

In Canton City at the beginning of the 20th Century, a wooden stage was erected by Wong Yan Lam and an open challenge was made. Unlike other challenges, which were limited to a set time period or set number of challenges, this one was open. In fact, it ended up lasting weeks.

There was a tibetain stylist that used to have a great webpage on the subject of tibetain martial arts and had an account of the fight with some pictures. I wont mention his name.
(cough) Gareth.

I heard from a student that its because he cant pay his phone bills. Odd since he's got his name on the cover of those books I see.... Maybe we can get the dali lama to give him a blessing so he can sell that screenplay and make a fortune so he can get his bills paid and get his page back up.

Wong Yan Lam defeated 150 challengers without a single loss. Many local fighters lost in matters of SECONDS. It remains the largest and most impressive challenge in TCMA.

I'm sure there are some 20th degree black belts in mongolian wrestling that would beg to differ. (snikker)

[HopGar]

Is someone playing DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, or is it another troll trying to be like EGO?

[diego]

he thinks his ancestor's are enlightenedbrahmin from india?, and our mere mortal understanding is baseless to his observation
its to bad to, seem's like he may have an idea what he think's about, it's just he brings up names out of nowhere, pulls thoughts from conversations sort of relating to the topic at hands
then strings it together like a chimpanzee makes simile playdoh with his excrement in his delight?, whotf is garreth, what does his relationship with the phone company have to do with
the dalillama, why you so ****ed at dali was your greatstep uncle suppossed to incarnate as the current llama?

Yah, anyway's don't get me started on turyan he doesnt like to talk to people, yet he always talks to people, like?.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

There are very strong links between Tibetan 'kung-Fu' as practiced in the West and HK and systms of Indian 'kalari' (Battle-ground) traditional martial arts from Southern India.

Similarity of 'form' between arts has long been accepted as evidence of contact and development. There are Kalari forms that are near identical to Si-Ji-Hao (Lion's Roar) sets - morse so than any perceived similarity with for example Choy-Lay-Fut. The oral traditions of Tibetan 'Kung-Fu' support the link also.

Cultures evolve just as the human body has - with vestiges of previous evolutionary forms still present, still functioning, alongside more 'recent' additions and developments.

India is the home of Buddhism, India is the home of Kalari. Both were transmitted to Tibet. Lama Buddhism and 'Kung-Fu' thence transmitted to China (South & West) with influence also in Manchuria (Mongolian wrestling and the cultural adoption of Tibetan Buddhism by the Manchu dynasty).

Look to Kalari for the 'origins' of much of what we understand today as Tibetan 'Kung-Fu'.

Perhaps a 'pilgramage' to Southern India would answer these questions. More simply, approach the Indian community in your country, like the Chinese with Kung-Fu they have their secrets...

Tao.

[andoi]

hey Tao-Yin-Lee

would you happen to anything more about the "kalari" indian martial art since it would be quite interesting topic in this forum i was also wondering what kind of similarities lama and choy li fut have in common?

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

andoi,

Kalari is very rare, however, Si-Fu Paul Whitrod of Chow's family Mantis is also a very experienced and well qualified teacher of Indian Kalari martial arts. His web site has information on its history and technique - also suggestions about where to find instruction.

Si-Fu Paul also says that in his experience Kalari looks similar to CLF.

The BBC TV documentary from 1982 showed a basic classification (as in Chinese arts) between 'Northern' and 'Southern' styles of Kalari. Marma Adi (vital point - dim-mak equivalent) striking is included in the film, as well as ethnic medicine and a whole range of traditional weapons.

I think similarities between CLF and Lama will depend on the degree of cross-fertilisation. IMO the two have separate beginnings but over time there has been some convergent development. Some Masters of each art have also studied the other.

We may not always like to hear of 'pure' arts cross-fertilising but it is a a fact nevertheless.

The Kalari art is a good reminder that we should look outside of China for Kung-Fu's ancestral roots - at least SOME of the time.

Tao.

[type01]

hi tao

i agree with you in that kalari and choy li fut have similarities but wouldnt kalari have more in common with lama kung fu than with choy li fut? No offence but if so why did you refer to choy li fut instead of lama kung fu? From what i have seen of both lama and choy li fut (which is very little) there is some degree of "cross fertilisation" as you call it for example i think they call it chaw or chow, something like that, both disciplines have the same technique but both disciplines execute it differently the lama people tend to be very advanced with the technique being precise in stance, arm position, head position and form of the movement there is thought and theory behind it whereas choy li fut look like they are less developed in the technique they lack the power in the strike it may be a result of poor execution of the correct movement and/or they lack the theory behind the strike. To them it seems to be just a strike.

I mean no disrespect to choy li fut but those are my thoughts on what i saw. That is why i think you should of refered to lama I may be wrong please correct me if i am, since it is difficult to see the differences between the two because of factors such as ability of the student, amount of dedication of master to student (vise versa) and whether the school is a commercialised money making machine where everyone outside the innercircle isnt taught correctly.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

type01

I mentioned Choy-Lay-Fut beacuse Si-Fu Whitrod drew the comparisson quite independently of me or of any knowledge of this discussion. In his opinion there was a resemblence.

I mention Tibetan arts in relation to Kalari because of the extraordinary similarities in a classical form shared between Kalari and one branch of Si-Ji-Hao which I had the privilege to learn.
Also, of course, the oral traditions and Buddhist transmission from India to Tibet.

As for cross-fertilisation between systems this goes on everywhere and is inevitable. It forms part of the tension necessary for systems to emerge, just as the opposite tendencey - that of conservatism also feeds into the creative tension albeit paradoxically in that conservatism generates cultural forces that are creatively opposed to it.

There are a lot of differences between Tibetan arts and Choy-Lay-Fut, many of the supposed similarities are superficial and on analysis are nothing more than the same or similar names given to techniques that are actually quite different mechanically.

That said, please understand that my use of Choy-Lay-Fut was in reference to a statement made by a Kung-Fu AND Kalari master. He did not in my understanding mean it in a literal way, but descriptively - to be 'similar' to Choy-Lay-Fut. It did not for example appear to be in any way similar to Wing-Chun as popularly seen.

What I saw of Southern Indian Kalari was more close to Tibetan Si-Ji-Hao than to Choy-Lay-Fut - as I have experienced it.

Tao.

[type01]

Tao

it seems that i have misunderstood you i meant no disrepect to you im sorry if i sounded it.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

Not at all, it's good to make friends.

Tao.

[Firebird]

Who has infos about tibetan kung fu styles ?
no Hop Gar, Lama Pai or tibetan white crane ; i thing there are more than these styles

[FIRE HAWK]

http://www.indexu.com/demo/go.php?id=2247
http://www.brucechiu.com/white.htm

[wiz cool c]

Does anyone know any info on Micheal Perella. He was a senior student of Chan Tia Son. Does anyone know if he has a web site?