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Thread: Fighting style for law enforcement?

  1. #16
    stranger, you familiar with robert twigger's 'angry white pyjamas'?

    account of scrawny oxford poet going thru the toyko riot police course.

    entertaining.

  2. #17
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    liokault -

    Combat tai chi has been taught to RCMP officers of D-division back in my home town of winnipeg for over 20 years now.

    by one Brian Cox sifu. I believe he published the manual about 10 or 15 years ago. Not sure if it's available outside of Canada, but Shambala might carry it.

    peace
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #18
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    rubthebuddha

    "a couple people i study with are corrections officers, and they can beat me okay with the general stuff,"


    I've been a corrections officer for some years in the past,some are good,some bad.


    "but where they REALLY get me is on the joint manipulation."


    We both study WT,next time you train with Leung Ting ask
    him what "you can lock a board,but you can't lock a chain"
    means.

    If he shows you and you understand the concept and you can apply it,your problem with "joint manipulation" will not be so much a problem.

  4. #19
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    Taba



    stranger, you familiar with robert twigger's 'angry white pyjamas'?

    Great book about a guy and i once met the guy its about. The most reveling part of the book for me is where all the top aikido guys from around the world for the funeral and go out to get drunk. after getting drunk they all go from night club to night club fighting bouncers.

    Now all the top aikido guys are fighting.....but there are no nice locks or even throws just wild haymaker punches!!!!!
    Last edited by Liokault; 10-17-2002 at 06:28 AM.
    LOL.. really, what else did you hear?.. did you hear that he was voted Man of the Year by Kung-Fu Magizine?

  5. #20
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    We both study WT,next time you train with Leung Ting askhim what "you can lock a board,but you can't lock a chain"
    means.
    This is why the name of the game is "Control, Isolate, Submission."

    It's also why I don't trust standing joint manipulation. Too many degrees of freedom of movement.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  6. #21
    If you can find a school near to you, try Systema. It's taught to/by Russian Spec Ops and the top police/bodyguard units. Failing that see if you can find combat Sombo anywhere.
    We have a number of police/ prison staff/security people in our school, they all swear by it.

  7. #22
    Originally posted by CD Lee [/i]Sombody mentioned Kenpo. I could be wrong, but is it not pretty normal to ingrain some very violent reactions to attacks in this style? ... . Kenpo would scare me as an officer. Scared I would slam my fist into someones adams apple before I had a chance to think.

    We are taught options, but you are correct in that a lot of the things we learn in Kenpo are violent/brutal. That's the nature of fighing. My brother is with the sherrifs office and has used Kenpo effectively several times in the line of duty.

    If learning specifically for police work you might try Sub Level-4 Kenpo. This is Dr. Ron Chapels' version of American Kenpo. He is an ex cop, and I've heard that a lot of his techniques end with the opponent in position to be cuffed or otherwise restrained. There is also an emphasis on cavity strikes as well as controling your level of response.

    Escrima was also recomended, and might be more available. It is an excellent style, although the Escrimadores I've worked out with were pretty violent. They do joint locks and takedowns as well.

    Chin Na and other joint locking styles would be excellent as an adjunct, but I wouldn't want to depend on joint locks alone. I don't think Chin Na was meant to be a stand alone style although what I've seen of it was verry effective.

    You might consider going through the academy first. You will get a fair ammount of training there. (I was the dummy for my brother when he went through, and I can tell you that the stuff they taught him worked!) After that you could check out what is available in your area and pick a style that fits well with what you are doing.

    Good luck in your career.

  8. #23
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    Yeah, check around in the academy. There may be some experienced but disgruntled old-timer martial arts freak just dying to share his knowledge.

    I just hope you get better training than the British police force, whose compulsory training on the newly released side-handle baton and telescopic baton consisted of just half a day on each!

    The side-handle baton training consisted of strikes only, which is only half of its repertoire, and difficult to control without a lot more than half a day! Furthermore, the British batons have rubber grips, thus negating half of the momentum usually afforded by a smooth, friction free handle. Basically, with that kind of weapon, you don't even need training in clouting someone.

    A good aiki teacher with enforcement experience (if by some miracle you're lucky enough to find one!!!) is all you'll need, funky standing locks and all. Most of the people you'll need to get dirty with will just need restraining until they've cooled off/sobered up, in a cell or there and then. I doubt many of them will have the faintest idea of, or certainly, natural reactions or even training, to work on the 'try locking a chain' principle.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

  9. #24
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    I posted this on your thread on the other forum

    http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/milpolvid.html
    I think everyone in enforcement should take a look at Jing Quan Dao. It's got some very interesting things going on - We are working on more. He even has a form for fighting with handcuffs.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  10. #25
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    tnwingtsun: i know the idea behind it, the locks, defenses, and my arms can work with it -- when done at a moderate speed. however the people i mentioned are **** good at the locks they apply. locks are locks, and the deferences between elbow or shoulder locks from style to style are pretty minimal. basically, it's a matter of skill and ability -- their skill with applying the lock is FAR greater than mine at relaxing with it.

    the good part? it's just motivation to get better with it, and at least i know i'm getting the attacks done against me correctly, so i have something legit to practice on.
    " i wonder how many people take their post bone marrow transplant antibiotics with amberbock" -- GDA

  11. #26
    "Now all the top aikido guys are fighting.....but there are no nice locks or even throws just wild haymaker punches!!!!!"

    yeah,

    "'was there any aikido?' asked ben. 'not that i saw,' said stephan otto, imitating the slow swing of a novice's haymaker punch. 'it was just brawling.'"

    and that questioned self- defence value - yikes!

    had liked the thought of praticing a hard style aikido some day. made me question...

  12. #27
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    taba,

    I have never read the book nor have I personally trained in Yoshinkan Aikido.

    I wouldn't necessarily consider the aikido bar fight a dark mark on the effectiveness of the style. Most styles don't work so well when drunk, some moreso than othes. Yoshinkan Aikido requires a keen sense of distance, timing, and center combined with fast flowing reflexes rooted in calmness. All of these requisites would be effected after a few drinks and be almost non-existant after a night of binge drinking combined with grief misdirected into random anger and violence.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is something to consider.
    Monkey vs. Robot

  13. #28
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    rubthebuddha>

    "basically, it's a matter of skill and ability -- their skill with applying the lock is FAR greater than mine at relaxing with it."

    I'm with ya all the way on that one,I would guess that we've both trained with people that can "relaxe" the limbs(or whole body being a higher level).

    And its hard to get to that point,I'm not where I'd like to be
    but I know that it can be done because we've seen it and felt it.


    Merryprankster>



    " This is why the name of the game is "Control, Isolate, Submission."

    As a Corrections Officer thats the plan and the SOP,as we both know when the Excrement hits the fan "Control, Isolate, Submission" does not always work.
    One of the screwed up things is that you can loose your job
    giving out a BC powder to an inmate let alone using too much force.
    I wanted to go home after the days work was done(to see my first new born),I had many reasons to give the job up(to many to list) but it was him(whoever became agressive) or me and whatever worked,worked,and we broke the rules every day
    to survive if need be.


    "It's also why I don't trust standing joint manipulation. Too many degrees of freedom of movement."

    I agree to a point,but the variables involved can turn volatile
    in a split second.
    Example.
    If you're shaking down 20 inmates and you're the only one in the room(which happens alot),the only protection you've got is your wits,a radio(see breaking the rules) and some
    under paid knuckle head watching your back from behind a part of a television transmitting apparatus, the reaction time to save your arse can sometimes be hopeless,thats when

    " This is why the name of the game is "Control, Isolate, Submission."

    Will get you killed in a expedited way if you don't have good back up,don't get me wrong,I 'm not here to lecture you and I agree with you 100% about your statment.

    "It's also why I don't trust standing joint manipulation. Too many degrees of freedom of movement."

    By the same token,"Control, Isolate, Submission."
    is just a part of the same puzzel as standing joint manipulation,they both have their places in different situations.

    I guess that makes me a MMA in mind and body.


    BTW,great posts from the both of youens

  14. #29
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    jmannix

    "Question: What's the most "practical" fighting style for someone in law enforcement?"


    Your mind and alot of good advice from members on this forum
    thats stood the watch,in many ways,its easy to spot them if you use your mind.

  15. #30
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    BJJ

    simply for the fact that you're strying to subdue/restrain and cuff a perp, which will almost always wind up on the ground. this is where i believe the "95% of fights go to the ground" saying comes from. a much different dynamic than just trying to kick the snot out of someone.
    and as for the question of "well what about multiple perps?" i'll answer with these questions...well what about your back up? what about your side arm?
    "heres to you as good as you are
    heres to me as bad as I am.
    But as good as you are,and as
    bad as I am,I'm as good as you are,
    as bad as I am"
    --
    "It's too bad my friend Chad's brother wasn't there, because he totally knows t'ai chi and sh*t."

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