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Thread: The Hakka Arts

  1. #16
    Guest

    Hakka Tradition

    In our Hakka tradition there are 3 most important thing. "Ming Gung", "Shen Gong" and " Kay Lun". Ming Gong is Gong Fu, Shen Gong is spiritual art and Kay Lun is unicorn dance.
    As far as the gong fu is spreading extremely fast to the west, the others seems to have been very slow or not even known. Which is a shame. Culture and traditional respect has a very important role in our tradition which we hope that will ring a bell to the others.
    Apart from the well known BaK Mei, Lung Ying Mor Kiu and Tong Long. There are actually a lot other more gong fu styles in Hakka tradition. e.g. Dill Gar Gao, Lau Gar Gao and Lee Gar etc. Which have heavily influence the modern three main streams in some ways. But unfortuenately, due to secretacy in passing on, which was a unwritten rule, all these styles are lesser known or even die out..


    regards

    Wilson
    http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

  2. #17
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    I hear you. The spirit of sharing is not easy to cultivate. Personally, I find the Lung Ying and Bak Mei even Chow Gar Tong Long are more open to the idea of sharing information. I know GM Lam and GM Cheung shared students. It's the quest for knowledge that they were interested in. I think that their example inspired their lineages of the sharing spirit. But to be able to get into the spirit, one must empty his or her cup first. In these two styles, there are poems and couplets that remind the students to be humble and learn from others. I feel this is a good tradition to pass on the next generations.

    Good thoughts, Wilson. The 3 important things are just excellent.

    Mantis108

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    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    [This message has been edited by mantis108 (edited 05-28-2000).]

  3. #18
    Guest
    Mantis108

    Thanks for the comments. So please to hear replies like that.
    Shame that in actual life, there are still plenty of masters that won't teach the art fully. I personally met a number of them, one is a Sifu in a village in NT HK. He has always be known of his great skills, but unfortunately he doesn't teach people not with his same family name, so even you are Hakka but not in the same village, you are considered as outsiders. Shame isn't it, and there are so many people tryin all sorts of way to become friends with him and try to learn from him...but he would turn you down when it comes to his teaching...a Si Sok of mine known him for 20 yrs now, they kind of grown up together..still..he wouldn't teach his skills to him...well..that's just some real facts that is happening in modern days Hakka society.

    best regards

    Wilson
    http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

  4. #19
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    I used to live in the NT area in HK that's how I met Sifu Chow Fook. I know a lot of the NT village folk moved oversea most to Europe. I think that's is the connection there? I'm glad we share same view on the subject.

    About the Hakka arts. A Dragon brother, Kevin Barkman, and I are wondering of the origin of a Dragon form called "Lung Ying Ying Jow" (Dragon Style Eagle Claw). It has quite a bit of clawing, twisting motions. I tend to believe this set is more a "Sarm Bo Tyui" system form , I seem to be the only one on this. Is there a Claw Form, Chin Na, or grappling form in your style? It may shed some light on how much these styles might have shared some major common roots.

    If you don't feel comfortable disclosing information in public, may be you don't mind e-mailing me? If you don't want to disclose info, that's fine, too. I understand and I'll respect your school's protocal.

    It would be very helpful to all Hakka arts, IMO.

    Thanks

    Mantis108


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  5. #20
    Guest
    mantis108

    Greetings. Excellent, so lived in "Sun Guy"? Where abouts? As I know that area quite well. Very good to hear people from HK in here.
    In regarding to your question, yes, I am aware of the form "Yang Chou" in Loong Yin. Well, after all these years, it is hard to trace back where that form comes from as since Lum Yiu Gru has trained under a number of Sifus. Yes, in our style we do have a number of Cum La technique, but not as a form as you put it (not in my knowledge only). The Cum La techs are very similar to Bak Mei's techs, and yet there can only be that X amount of hands motion due to short hand styles anyway.
    Have you heard of Loong Yin Mok Keun Pai? It is a system create by Lum Chon Wai, the son of Lum Yum Tong (One of Tung Kong Sarm Fu, Three Tigers in East River, close friend of Lum Yiu Gru). He has been teaching this art for a very long time, I've also heard he got students in USA too, as he went over to teach in the States for a yr or two. This guy is perhaps one of the guy that is still alive and know so much about Lum Yiu Gru's earlier history.

    best regards

    Wilson
    http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

    [This message has been edited by Wilson (edited 05-28-2000).]

  6. #21
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    It's a small world after all. LOL...

    I was born in Shan Sheung, NT, HK. You Know "the boarder town."

    Sifu Chow Fook was a resident of Shan Sheung. He had good relationship with the surrounding villages. We used to train in one of the villages call "Tak Bo". They have something like a mini village hall not the ancestrial hall though. I think it's called "Heung Kung Sor". The village youths would gather there and practice. I had some good times there. Thanks to their generousity (they sponsored a Lion Dance Team upon Sifu's recommendation), I got to learn the Lion Head.

    Great info. Who's the third Tiger? Loong Ying Mo Keun Pai? I have heard of Lum Yuk Tong but I have no clue about his style nor his son's. It should be interesting to contact students from that system, don't you think? There are certainly many interesting Hakka tales. Would you care to share some?

    I spend most of my time practicing techniques and all, and seldom paid attention to stories at "Yum Cha" (tea after practice). To be honest, Sifu and his peers used to speak in Hakka dialect. Most of the history I got was from printed matter. On some ocassion, Sifu would relate one or two things in his Hakka accented Cantonese. Like the one about "Yau Kung Moon" broken off from Bak Mei. I wish I had spent more time with him. Well, it's a bit late since he passed away.

    Sorry get carried away. Hope you are well and keep up the good work [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Mantis108

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  7. #22
    Guest
    Mantis108

    Hi! Yes, Tak Po Chun, I always thought that is consider as in "Fun Lan", so it is in Shun Sui, as I sometimes get pass Tak Po by mini bus.
    Anyway, back to the gong fu, yes, Dong Kong Sarm Fu, are Lung Ying Lum Yiu Gru, Mok Gar Lum Yum Tong and Bak Mei Cheung Lai Chun.
    Yeah, I've also heard the same tales about the Yau Gong Moon...
    Oh, so you train in the Chun Gong Sor under Sifu Chow Fook, and Tang is your Si Hing then. My Si Gong also teaches in the Chun Gong Sor in Shatin, Pai Tau Chun. Small world heh.
    I did recieve an e.mail from Robert in regarding to Lum Yum Tong's son teaching, which he mentioned the person called Steve Martin to me, and have a URL, if you want it I can post it here for you, so you can contact them.
    Anyway, take care and keep up the good work.

    best regards

    Wilson
    http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

  8. #23
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    Is it in Fun Lan? You may be right. When you are a kid, Shan Shui could be the whole world. Also, I am bad at direction.

    I train at Sifu's risdence and Tak Po Chun Kung Sor. Sifu loved to teach Kung Fu to anyone who's willing and able. I learn this from him. Currently I'm teaching non Chinese students just like he would.

    Is it C.S. Tang? I don't think he would remember me.

    Steve Martin's site is Sojourpast, right? I visited that once. Kevin Barkman who is a Dragon brother sent me some info concerning Lung Ying and Mok Gar. I have finish the whole thing yet.

    Cool about your Sigong, I shall visit your site again.

    BTW, is there a technique you favor and why?

    Until next time.

    Mantis108

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  9. #24
    Guest
    Mantis108

    Nice to hear from you. About the techniques, not in particular, as we are more into the the study of gongs and different tye of power development a lot more than techniques, as the majority of the techniques can be performed better and more effective with the proper use of different Gen. Also through training the different type of gongs, the body shape will change so much that enables a better structure for techniques to be performed.
    Well, any thoughts about that, as in Lung Ying there are quite a few gongs that has passed down from Lum Yiu Gru too, that gives the great power behind the Lung Ying style.
    How much emphasis do you put in those fields?

    best regards

    Wilson
    http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

  10. #25
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    To be honest, I learn very little from Sifu. It was my fault mostly. I was too whimpy and too stupid to learn the real stuff. One thing he did show me or wanted me to do was the balance myself over 2 horse bench (with one supporting the shoulders (head if you are advanced) and the other supports the ankles). It is for the teeth clinching Ging and for overall body power. I suppose had he given it to me incrementally, I would have practice it. but he just put me there and say "now practice and clinch your teeth". I just could stand it. So he basically let me to it from then on. Now I understand what he must have felt. Because the kids in my class complain just the same way I did. I wouldn't "make" them do the hard work neither. Other than that I went through the usual toughening and power building stages. My favorite training routine is the finger jab, cross, double push and pull right after strength training to losen up the whole body,
    Or should I say to "Fong Ging"?

    Mantis108

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  11. #26
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi Wilson,

    It's been kinda quiet around here. You mentioned Ming Gong, Shen Gong and Kay lun. Would you like to share some thoughts on Shen Gong and Kay Lun. Especially Kay Lun, I think Meltdawn is learn the musical intruments with the Kay Lun. This will help other who wish to know more about Hakka traditions. Will you give this a go?

    Mantis108

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  12. #27
    Monkey Guest
    This Kay Lun, is it a performance of a dance or is it a dancing martial art ?

  13. #28
    djh Guest
    Hi guys,

    I am a student of Chow Gar Tong Long and am always on the lookout for any sources of information on the history of the style or the Hakka people. Can you guys point me in the direction of any references (english)?

    Sorry I have nothing to contribute to your conversation yet (hopefully later after a bit more reading).

    Cheers

  14. #29
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi,

    Monkey,

    Kay Lun is unicorn dance which is a dance that uses martial arts skills. Above all it is also to show the cultural side of the performing team. Protocol must be observe at all times while performing. If it is done improperly, the Kwoon, the Sifu would lost "face".

    djh,

    Thanks for the interest in the Hakka styles, I will revive the Share Hakka stories thread for you. I look forward to you input.

    Mantis108

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  15. #30
    mantis108 Guest
    Hi djh,

    Tried to revive the share Hakka history, but it didn't work. So if you are interested just set the day setting on the forum to 75 days. It is in the second page.

    Mantis108

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