Taoism

[Internal Flow]

I was curious if non-chinese are accepted in taoist monasteries in China, does anybody know about it? I also wanted to ask if there is still taoist ascetic tradition like it used to be in the past or it has completely stopped.

[Nexus]

A book you might want to pick up and read is "The Taoist Body"

[Stacey]

to not accept you would be counter to taoism, so if they didn't, then that wouldn't be the right place to be anyways.


Remember, just because its foreign, doesn't make them better.

You might be better off going to Mass on Sunday. Eastern religion's have equal possibility for corruption as western ones.

Besides, there are Taoist temples in the US. If you are looking for exotic mistly mountains with clear eyed sages, forget it. These are just forms not the way. There are places nearer than you think with open hearted people who can help you to return to the way. How do you find them?

Trust in the way things are. Meditate, follow your intuition. Their are no coincidences and the more wu wei you get, the easier your life will flow.

[Nexus]

As stacey said, don't get too strung up on any single concept, just take other religions as an opportunity to expand your learning and follow your passions.

[Internal Flow]

Thank you for the replies and the book suggestion. You shouldnt think i ask this question because im imagining things i wanted to know more about this matter though. There is still strong ascetic buddhist tradition and i was curious if that is for the taoists as well.
Nexus, could you tell me what this book is about?

[Kevin Wallbridge]

Daosim is an oral tradition, so books are not really the way to go into the depths of the teaching. While battered and bruised there is still a Daoist ascetic tradition in China. However, it is not simply a matter of showing up and expressing interest. If you really want to train Daoism in China expect to have a lot of expences, both in terms of material and time.

I don't know of any westerners who have actually been accepted into a Daoist monastery, but it is possible to receive some teachings. The first thing you want is fluent Chinese of the local dialect. Passable Chinese won't do. To follow the depths of the discussion and to recognize the symbolic language you will need fluency. An oral tradition cannot be conveyed, except in a most cursory manner, in translation. How they teach something is as important as what they are saying.

One of the most direct ways to be connected into this is to establish a relationship with a Qigong association that has ties to the tradition of a Holy Daoist mountain. When I lived in China I was in Chengdu in Sichuan. A short way out of the city is Qingcheng mountain, a Daoist religious and philosophical centre. While I was training in Emei Qigong I was taken to Qingcheng to visit with an old monk. He was generous and full of humour, but even with my good mandarin I couldn't follow his train of thought very well. 10 years later I still have insights into that afternoon's conversation.

I would expect you will have to plan on going to China a few times to establish the connections needed to be accepted into a legitimate Daoist lineage. Even then, don't be too eager or be too attached to getting the teaching. If you go there and have an open mind and clear spirit you may find what you are looking for. It will take perserverence and lots of humility. Express sincere interest, but don't bother telling them what you already know.

I'm sorry, but I will not give you any references or introductions. That you have to do yourself. If it is there for you then you will find it.

[mantis108]

Ask yourself this question:

Do you really need to eat bitter before tasting sweet?

Taoism, once upon a time, was a philosophical work that got mixed up with shamanism and later on with asceticism as well. I believe getting yourself familiar with works like "Tao Te Ching" and "I Ching" would help you better before making the big leap of faith.

Mantis108

[Internal Flow]

These replies have been very helpful and id like to thank you again.

[ddh]

There is a good book out on the people living and practicing in isolation in the Kun Lung mountains. I can't remember the name of the book but a western scholar on Chinese philosophy (?) out of Taiwan wrote the book. It's something like "In search of Hermits" (?). Good luck - as already noted - your language needs to be truely fluent. It might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the classical language of the "Yellow Emperor's handbook on Chinese Medicine." If you can read that text in Chinese and get it's implications, you may be able to find your way.

[Internal Flow]

It is really very nice to know there are still taoist ascetics. I intend to start mandarin soon. By the way, as you already talked about a book written by the Yellow Emperor, i have read that Yellow Emperor also wrote a book called Yin Fu Jing, i think it is "Harmony between visible and invisible" or something similar. Is it available? I have tried to find it but i havent managed it and i was strting to think that it may be a legend...

[mantis108]

The classics, including the Yellow Empire ones (most likely written by someone else who borrowed his fame), are collected in the Taoist Canon. I think Taiwan has an edition or 2 of it. It's kind of like the encyclopedia of Taoism. BTW, there is also a Chinese martial novel by the famous authour Jinrong that has some stories about the Taoist Canon. One tale is that some martial arts expert made a lot of enemies whom gathered in forces in an attempt to kill the MA experts. He was able to excape. Since he's previously commissioned by the Emporer at the time to work on the Taoist Canon, he was well versed with the content. So he studied further on the canon and created some incredible MA skill. But when he set out to find his foes. He found that they were all dead due to old age or sickness. It took him 60 years to develop his incredible stuff yet all his enemies were long gone. I like this story because of the ironic moral behind it. It is the essence of Taoism or rather Chinese thinking. The Tao of Chinese is that we are skilled in time and patience.

Mantis108

[Kevin Wallbridge]

ddh, the book is "Road to Heaven: Encounters With Chinese Hermits." The author was Porter, perhaps Bill Porter? I think I must have lent it out and never got it back as its not in my library right now.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Taoism, set to rules and rituals is contrary to the philosophy itself. Much confusion exists between religious Taoism and philosophical Taoism. First, there were the individual Taoists, the wise that sensed their relationship with nature.. then, that pure insight was popularized into organizations and rituals.. Although the organizations and rituals may indeed expedite the acquiring of Taoist concepts, don't confuse them with actual Taoism..
The I Ching studied as a discourse on the nature of cause and effect (consequences) of human nature is far more valuable than as used for a divination tool (imho). The "hermit Taoist" is so because he understands his relationship to nature is first and foremost a personal one. My simple word of warning is, don't give-over who "you are" for someone else's idea of who you should be...... Taoism is spontaneous, it is random order, it is nature.. just as your fighting forms are links to the ultimate free form natural response to aggression.. ritual Taoism is just a link to a deeply personal experience that transcends the ritual that brings you to that point... Choose a teacher that is interested in YOU becoming YOU, not one that wants you to become Him.. Good luck....

(Yikes, i know i'm going to get trashed for this one).. but, Be well.. this too shall pass...

[Internal Flow]

I agree with you TaichiBob. But someone that becomes a monk does not reject "philosophical" taoism for the rituals, he just accepts them as well. And someone that becomes an ascetic, has nothing to do with rituals and surely aims only to knowing the Tao.

[stormmountain]

www.wudangtao.com Master Chen can tell you if Wudang accepts foreigners. I know that he took a group of Americans and they trained there for a few days. One of my kung fu bros told me that there is school nearbye that is affiliated (run by monks) with Wudang for people like you.