has anyone seen Mantis video's by Sifu Raul Ortiz??

[Royal Dragon]

Are they any good??

[Royal Dragon]

I am specifically asking about this guy

http://www.superiormartialarts.com/c...&affiliate=583

[SevenStar]

I remember those vids from black belt mags, like 13 years ago.I was just a kid back then, wanted to order them and never did. Other than the ads, I've never heard anything about the guy though. why don't you post this on the mantis forum?

[SevenStar]

http://www.ortizacademy.com/

[NorthernMantis]

I would suggest asking in the northern mantis section. Haven't seen much or heard much of the guy so I can say anything.

[Rolling Elbow]

After watching those vids i am left with the feeling that mantis is overly fancy with weak blocks, powerless strikes, and too many spins....anybody else with me on that?! I'm willing to convert but i've got too see more than that!

[rogue]

From the October lesson.

Break his right elbow against the back of your neck

I don't think so.

[Souljah]

seen a couple of the tapes.....theyre ok, depends how easy you find it to learn from a tape.....

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by Rolling Elbow
After watching those vids i am left with the feeling that mantis is overly fancy with weak blocks, powerless strikes, and too many spins....anybody else with me on that?! I'm willing to convert but i've got too see more than that!

lol don't just judge on some tapes and on one guy and on one mantis style. They'res different variations.

I dont' know what spins you are talking about , I don't think any mantis mantis has spinning moves others thatn sweeps.

Oh and just because it moves differently it doesn't mean it's weak. Mantis is a very effective style. Trust me I've had the experince.

Like I said ask in the northern mantis forum or wait till someone with better knowledge than me comes bye.

What do you mean in weak strikes and blocks?What parts did you not like? I cannot speak for Raul Ortiz but I can speak for my style of mantis.

Oh and the breaking someones arm with our neck is unheard off unles I wasn't taught that yet.

[dre]

It's 100% cr@p - please just trust me.

[Rolling Elbow]

watch the vids and the two partner "dances".. kinda weak. But i too have seen some old mantis vids and they looked diff then this so i'd like to see more. Southern mantis trapping hands I saw was pretty cool..no b.s right to the point. This however, was VERY flowery. Just watch the clips on the site.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Rolling Elbow
After watching those vids i am left with the feeling that mantis is overly fancy with weak blocks, powerless strikes, and too many spins....anybody else with me on that?! I'm willing to convert but i've got too see more than that!

I agree they lack power on the videos. it Looks more like Wu Shu than traditional kung fu.

I know it's a demo of the forms ,but these are teachers doing these forms that says alot.I think this is where kung fu is losing it's respect.It looks alot like a dance what they are doing.I would expect that from students ,but from teachers i think that is a weak example to show people of your training.

At first i thought it was a nice website with traditional teaching.They might be teaching traditional kung fu ,but they lack power with there techniques.

jmd161

[Tainan Mantis]

Got one video a while back.
That mantis has no relationship to any other PM style I have studied including...
Wah Lum
6 Harmony
8 Step
7 Star
Two families of Taiji PM
Mimen
Plum Flower

Nor was it related to other styles that have similar points to PM and also are found in Shandong such as...
Mi Dzong Chuen
Yen Ching Chuen
Er Lang Chuen
Gong Li Chuen
Many types of Chang Chuen

The tape I have includes the famous PM form Beng Bu.
It was performed in a way like some Southern styles.
Although most Southern schools who have adopted PM do the 7* Beng Bu from HK. This wasn't the case.

Several years ago a fellow named Word(remember him?) critisized the videos very rudely.
Master Ortiz himself joined the melee(no exaggeration).

He explained that he no longer practices that style and now does the PM as taight by Lee Kamwing. GM Lee is famous as a grandstudent of Luo Guangyu.

It seems unfortunate that those tapes are a poor representation of what Master Ortiz actually does.
But they probably still sell well because he looks like a dangerous character on the box cover.

[WCFighter]

Hi everyone,

Let's all be nice.

Whatever our style is, we should respect everyone else's.
It is the person, not the style that you must judge.

He has very good credentials as far as I am concerned.

Even though I am a Wing Chun practicioner , I have to admit that I really enjoyed looking at the pictures and videos from the Ortiz website.

I love the fact that wing chun has fewer hand/weapon forms than
most other styles; it doesn't take a lifetime to learn them.
(Although it can take a lifetime to master them).

But then sometimes, especially when looking at this website,
I regret the fact that wing chun has fewer hand/weapons forms.
(Like I'm missing out on a whole wack of chinese culture, and cool kung fu weapons forms)
I thought it was cool to watch his students, even the young kids, practice the staff and sword forms. It gives them a chance to
feel good about themselves and compete in something other than sparring.

Ever been to a kungfu demo in a shopping mall or someplace, and there is a wing chun forms demo? Boring !!!! (Ok, maybe not the wooden dummy form)
Ever see another kung fu school doing Crane or Mantis Kung fu demos (insert any other style)? It's pretty cool to watch.

I get the same feeling when I watch kungfu films and see them fight with different weapons, or different styles : drunken boxing etc.

I love wing chun. It's great and efficient. It was derived from the most efficient movements of all kung fu styles.

Sometimes I just wish it included more "things" from those styles.

Anybody else ever feel this way?

[Rolling Elbow]

exactly.