Yip Mans 4 that he taught it all too!

[hunt1]

Several months ago in some magazine Allan Lee was interviewed. He talked about stating with Lok Yiu and being invited by Yip Man to be a private student. In the article he said that as he was getting ready to come to America Yip Man told him that he(Yip) was to old to really finish showing him the system but that on his return (Allan)he should study with 1 of the 4 private students Yip Man taught everything to.

Allen did not mention the names. I guess that Duncan Leung is one because Allen learned from nad has maintained his relationship with Duncan for a long time.

So for discussion purposes who do you think were the other 3.

Also this leads to another question. Did those learing from Yip Man after this time really learn everything even though they were private students. If Yip man was to old to finish evrything with Allen wouldnt he have been to old to teach those that came later?

[yuanfen]

Yip Mans 4 that he taught it all too!
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(I wasnt there when Yip Man supposedly gave sifu Lee advice.
And I dont know whether Leung studied long enough with IM to be one of the so called 4. If the Lee report is accurate IM may have been referring to private students in his middle period/zenith of his teaching- not towards the end. (For discussion sake) I have wondered whether KT CHAO was one such student- I have only circumstantial "evidence". Self evident who I think another top student was. I dont know whether Ip Bo Ching was another...the evidence is mixed. All this is just "thoughts"...not even a thesis
and not intended as a slam against anyone .In the end what matters is whether one learns good wing chun froma good enough teacher. Never mind what rank he has in someone's list. Also good teachers can produce bad students and a student can become better than their teacher. Nature of life and education!
Its happened before in many fields))
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Several months ago in some magazine Allan Lee was interviewed. He talked about stating with Lok Yiu and being invited by Yip Man to be a private student. In the article he said that as he was getting ready to come to America Yip Man told him that he(Yip) was to old to really finish showing him the system but that on his return (Allan)he should study with 1 of the 4 private students Yip Man taught everything to.

Allen did not mention the names. I guess that Duncan Leung is one because Allen learned from nad has maintained his relationship with Duncan for a long time.

So for discussion purposes who do you think were the other 3.

Also this leads to another question. Did those learing from Yip Man after this time really learn everything even though they were private students. If Yip man was to old to finish evrything with Allen wouldnt he have been to old to teach those that came later?

[Mr. Bao]

I am a student of Alan Lee and SiBak Duncan Leung is one of the four private students of the last and late grandmaster Yip Man. Lee Sifu met another private student in hong kong which made it clear this was the first and last time they will meet and see each other. This man is some wealthy hong kong business man which had awesome chi sao ability. It seems that each fours private students each had a speciality and all completed the system. Duncan Leung is known for his power and used of short knives techniques. The other students had nick names which is hard to locate them. It seems that these wealthy and private students
don't care to make themselves public or care about wing chun's growth.

I have meet some of the old students of Hong Kong and to be honest there is nothing like Duncan Leung or Alan Lee out there but that is my opinion. I have also gone to every wing chun school in nyc area and I am happy with what I am learning from Lee sifu. I hope people have a chance to come by the school and speak with Lee Sifu and exchange ideas of wing chun. I am always checking out other wing chun schools and comparing with I am learning and I find something better my teacher told me I could leave with no hard feelings. I don't see that happening but I am trying my best to see what is out there tho.


Bao

[Atleastimnotyou]

ok, this has been bugging me for awhile, maybe someone can explain it to me.... I thought the word "sifu" came before the name ei. Sifu Lee. so why does everyone use it the other way? ei Lee Sifu?

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Atleastimnotyou
ok, this has been bugging me for awhile, maybe someone can explain it to me.... I thought the word "sifu" came before the name ei. Sifu Lee. so why does everyone use it the other way? ei Lee Sifu?

Chinese language conventions

Regards,

[reneritchie]

ALMNY- Chinese, like Japanese (and unlike Western convention), places the form of address *after* the name. Mister Lee would be Lee Sin-Sang in Cantonese. Teacher Lee would be Lee sifu in Cantonese. Mrs. Lee and Miss Lee, Lee Tai-Tai and Lee Siujay respectively. Chinese women also customarily keep their maiden name, so if Ms. Chan married Mr. Lee she would be both Lee Tai-Tai (Lee's wife) and Chan Siujay (Ms. Chan). Etc. Etc.


The Rest - What is "it all"? Who says anyone got "it all"? Who says Yip Man or even Wong Wah-Bo or Leung Jan got "it all"? What's the root of this facination?

I hate mentioning names, since everyone always gets p!ssed. So I'm making the rest of this thread for rational, reasonable, non-emotional, adults only. If you have any god-complexes, hero-worship issues, want to fight to the death about any piece of gossip or heresay, think some people's reputations are worth more than others, or otherwise can't stop yourself bickering about the trees when talking about the forest, please stop reading now. Click 'back' and go read one of r5a's threads. This post isn't for you.














Still here? Okay, then remember, that these are *rumors* (same as "so and so got it all" is just a *rumor*.

Its often said in WCK circles, if you add up all the rumors, that no one got "it all". The early students didn't get all the dummy or weapons (some got some parts, others got other parts). It's said the younger "fighters" like H. Cheung, D. Leung, etc. got some body structure points and knife set choreoraphy from Ho Kam-Ming. It's said that Ho Kam-Ming got a lot because he took Yip Man to the hospital and nursed him after he nearly did himself in, but still didn't get a pole set, just the points (others got the pole set but just the knife points). Yip Chun & Yip Ching didn't care for WCK until it was too late and their father moved, then when they caught up to him in HK he was too old/sick and couldn't teach much personally, so they made relationships with Tsui, Leung Ting, and others. And the list goes on and on. There's a story about *everyone*, and each probably has its microscopic bit of truth as much as it has its ton of BS. You can tell that by the amount of people who insist *their* sifu got "it all" but sifu so-and-so certainly did not.

And Yip Man also seemed to be evolving his system throughout his career, changing the number and order of some dummy sets, changing the choreography of the knives a few times, etc. Did you have to learn every variation of every set to get "it all"? Can you realistically hit that moving target? Do you even need to?

Maybe you can flip the logic over and say that many of them did get "it all" in that they got his core of WCK and were able to make it their own, apply it, and teach it to others regardless of sometimes petty arrangements or numbering sequences. Maybe there's a generation of excellent students who, despite their often grandiose self-promotion and often silly infighting and trash talking of each other, have ensured the Yip Man branch of vitality and diversity, and express the core of the art to their students and succeeding generations much as it was expressed to them.

Some people can build a car, can tell you every component and how it works and can fiddle around with it but just drive like Joe Average. Some people don't know a lick of mechanics but can drive like Mario Andretti. And some people just paint cars really nice, or can sell them, or can get promoters to fund them and put stickers all over them. Which has "it all"?

RR
(running, ducking, and covering)

[aelward]

Only Rene Ritchie could articulate what he said, so beautifully. I have to agree with him. I feel that it didn't matter who learned what or how much from whom, just as long as they knew how to apply it and pass it on.

[yuanfen]

Hi Rene: Many good points in your post. The important thing is what we learn now and how well it is learned and taught.
Neither one of us were there when Yip Man was ill. But FWIW, IMO IM had taught Ho Kam Ming the knives when he was well enough to walk him through before he quit teaching. Helping take care of Ip man in his final days is a separate context. And what the pole "form" is- can also be a different matter. Of course there all kinds of opinions about most things in wing chun.

[Martial Joe]

I know Tsui Sheung Tin was his third...hes the man.

[jesper]

If I am not mistaken, Yip man changed his WC all his life to suit his health, age, experience etc. So how could he have taught all to one single student ?

If my memory serves me, I can think of at least two incident where that became apparent.
First in his SLT where he left out a section, but later reinstated that when WSL confronted him with a problem
Second I was told 7-8 years ago, that WC originaly contained a technic where you go down on one knee to hit at the midtsection (or something similar), but it was left out when Yip got to old to do it properly.

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


The dropping knee horse is called Gwai Ma.


Back to lurk mode!


Regards,

[yuanfen]

jesper sez:First in his SLT where he left out a section, but later reinstated that when WSL confronted him with a problem

((That motion is there in another part of wing chun. Tailor making it for WSL for solving his problem does not mean that Ip Man was changing the form for everyone))

Martial Joe sez:I know Tsui Sheung Tin was his third...hes the man

((Things like this- understandably--In the eye of the beholder))

Mr Bao sez:to be honest there is nothing like Duncan Leung or Alan Lee out there but that is my opinion

((Not an unusual opinion- lots of people feel that way about their particular teacher- dont you think so?))

[fa_jing]

Rene Ritchie - you said it. Red5Angel, read it and weep.

[reneritchie]

Some of Yip Man's early students reportedly learned Kwai Ma. I learned it in SNWCK. It gets harder as you get older (at least it does for me

[yuanfen]

Rene sez:Maybe there's a generation of excellent students who, despite their often grandiose self-promotion and often silly infighting and trash talking of each other, have ensured the Yip Man branch of vitality and diversity, and express the core of the art to their students and succeeding generations much as it was expressed to them
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(((Probably true- at least I hope so.))

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Fajiing sez:Rene Ritchie - you said it. Red5Angel, read it and weep
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((Weep? Unlikely. He is unlikely to understand the post as well))