Are you ready to fight?

[hunt1]

use of WC in a fight seems to be a common undercurrent on the forum. So I have a little test to see if you understand how to use WC.

There have been several studies done by various law enforcement groups that have all come to the same conclusion.
Almost 90% of all altercations start with a sucker punch. Hence if you can defend against one you can save your bacon more often than not. Here is the test.


Start with just on partner than expand to 4. have person stand 2.5 to 3 feet away from you. Yes one arms length or less. He throws a full speed full power punch at your head without any advance warning. Use protective gear and use someone that can pull their punch. You will either not get hit,get hit but not with full power or get smacked. No cheating the distance.

[red5angel]

While thats well and good hunt1 avoiding a sucker punch is about 90% staying out of range and being weary. If you want to do some real training for that then learn to be attentive to those you talk to, pay attention to the distance you are from them and their body language.

[hunt1]

You are kinda single minded and dense arent you Red.
T he whole point is that it is a sucker punch. You dont see it coming. It happens when you are drunk,your guard is down etc.

Since 90% of all fights start with this if you cant handle it you will be spending lots on dental work. If your WC doesnt prepare you to face what in 9 out of 10 times what you will confront then your WC is worthless and you should take up knitting. The whole point of a Martial Art is to provide you with the means to protect you and yours when necessary. If you ever have to use your WC in real life the odds are 90% it will be in this exact situation.

And there is no doubt that you will get smacked if you try this little test.

[red5angel]

An being drunk makes doing wingchun easier anyway? hunt1 without getting insulting, why dont you just think about it for a second before you talk to me about being dense. How many times are you in a situation you DONT know there is the posibility it could get violent? Law enforcement personel always treat their encounters as potentially hostile and the first rule is awareness. I cant imagine it would hurt to train what you were saying but that isnt the end all to be all by any means.
Thats the key in self defense, and I am getting sick of seeing these karate/self defense programs come out where you get to go for a few weeks one hour a week and walk away with a few close combat tricks they cant really pull off. If some guys 3 feet away from me I would hope my wingchun skill can help me regardless. If I am in a situation where I think there is apotential for violence like 99.9% of those situations those agencies you quoted are talking about, I am not going to allow someone to get into a position to sucker punch me.

"If your WC doesnt prepare you to face what in 9 out of 10 times what you will confront then your WC is worthless and you should take up knitting"

I absolutely agree, but I will take it ****her and say 10 out of 10

[teazer]

In this case, perhaps not as dense as you think.
An effective solution is to minimize positions where someone is able to throw one at you unadvertized.
I agree, it's certainly good to get effective counters & reflexes down vs an unexpected attack.
With that said, you need to put the studies you allude to in context. I imagine it is quite rare for someone to just come up and hit you from behind or the side without a bit of shouting & pushing first. My guess is 5/10 are someone shouting in your face, up close. A bit of a shove, then wham. 2/10 are you having a discussion with someone in front of you & his mate smacks you unexpectedly from the side.
Keeping a little distance, not focussing just on the talker will take some stress off those hair trigger responses you're trying for.

[anerlich]

So 9/10 fights start with a sucker punch, 90% of all real fights go to the ground, 5/10 in your face up close, 2/10 double team with an attack from the side.

Lies, **** lies and statistics.

That said, hunt1 is correct.

Look at www.geoffthompson.com for some INFORMED comment on the issue.

[OdderMensch]

I'll test it tonight if possible.

is ok to hit first?


a technical question on the test, has the other guy got his hands up? boxing gaurd, right cross to the jaw? or a from the hip shot? i'd think the sucker punch would come from the hip. I'll try both.

[planetwc]

Anybody ready to handle a big boy like this guy?

Beat Down MMA-NHB style

Will you tan da? Pak Da?
Or Run like HeLl da?

[vingtsunstudent]

hunt1
don't know if you've expanded on that and tried this but this is one we used to do that is not to disimilar.
same range but your opponents hand are held beside the face(much like a thai boxer) and with either hand they try and touch you with a light slap to your face(they should have some control and not just all out bitch slap you), your hands on the other hand are held down at your sides, by the waist.
they can use either hand and for most the pace will have to be slowed a little at first, there are a few things that this drill will teach that should know but generally think about but don't use, i ussually explained it to people that there are a few tricks to doing this and once they could they would soon see that they are not tricks just basic wing chun rules that they were forgeting to actually apply.
when i was younger and training often i used to be able to stop 8 or 9 out of 10 at full speed.
for those who actually try this and find they can't seem to stop many and wonder why, all you have to do is come back and ask and i'll even share my little secrets with ya.
vts

[hunt1]

vts-nice variation. the more looks the better.


Odder- always best to hit first i think.For Wc to work bestmoving on intent is best. so no punching until you feel his intent to punch you. You will be surprised or you may already know how many times you will hit hi just before he was going to hit you.

on the technical side try without hands up first hands up takes away the sucker aspect. with that said when you try 3 or 4 arround you hands can be anywhere. The more variation the better.

Planet-a big bad boy.there are some people that are just tough mean mothers and they will walk through most anyone. However this guy outside a ring isnt one of them. In a ring a hard man to beat but very beatable if you stay calm and do your stuff. He has lots of holes and since I doubt they are often exploited if you exploit them and can take the initial pain he will drop. Hole 1 very open center line through out.

[planetwc]

Hunt1,

Yes he has a lot of holes right now. He has really just started training to learn to fight professionally. Prior to this he was in the NFL and then WCW wrestling apparently. He is now training with some very experienced fighters in preparation for K-1.

He is about 6'3" and 350LBS.

Yikes.

[hunt1]

teazer and red _ you both make points but I dont think you have ever been in these types of situations. you are trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. Sucker punches or cheap shots are such because they tend to come after one party thinks the situation has toned down. They are by definition a surprise. Situational awarness is always important but it will give you precious help when a punch, bottle or knife comes at you from 3 feet or less. In fact in my little test you have the advantage of situational awarness. You know the person across from you is going to attack you just dont know when. The street is much harder since you dont even know if yet alone the when.

The point of the test -WC has the answers to this situation built into the system . WC was designed with this type of situation in mind. If your WC is good its not a problem if its not so good you get hit which is a good thing.Then you get to improve your understanding of WC.

[vingtsunstudent]

i don't think many wing chun people have the chance to train professionally(this guy probably spends at least 6-8 hrs a day training and doesn't have to work for a living like most), with this man the other things you have mentioned that he has done put him right up there in athletic terms, the fact that he is huge and probably spent a great amount of time using gear and training in very explosive weights( most football players do) would probably mean that for the most part his explosiveness off the mark would dictate that he would merely only have to run into most people to knock them into another weak.
sad but true, some people are freaks and even with poor technique they are just hard mothers.
all that said and done i think if you fear him or anyone else then you never even have a chance at winning, you never know he might take a good one on the chin and be down for the count. seen it, been it and done it.
size isn't everything(mind you it sure can help)
vts

[vingtsunstudent]

hunt1
well said, this is only a drill and to those that have tried any like yours or mine they will know how hard it is at first(even if you don't look at it as training for being sucker punched the reflex and technique training you get from it is awesome to say the least), and this is even without the fear and addrenaline that can make it even more difficult in real situations.
good awareness is one thing(and it should be trained) but it isn't going to stop something from happening all the time.
i'd say if you can stop 9 out of 10 with this drill you have a 7 out of 10 chance in the real world.
just my opinion but having been in just a couple of altercations through the years, you soon learn that it never seems to go quite like it did at the kwoon, sometimes it does and when that happens that yourself lucky and go back and train even harder.
vts

[vt108]

"for those who actually try this and find they can't seem to stop many and wonder why, all you have to do is come back and ask and i'll even share my little secrets with ya"

Well vts. I'm waiting for your help. I'm wondering what technique you use to stop this. For me it is Bong Sau or duck a head and Pak Sau.

vt108