Are you ready to fight?

[Ludeviews]

In this case I think Red is right, surely its better to keep up your awareness so that you aren't suckered punched.....

Geoff Thompson says that you shouldn't let your awareness drop so that you can be blindsided or sucker punched.

Not saying the drill doesn't have it uses but if you are aware and put up your fence, ain't no sucker punch getting through.....

[teazer]

Lies, **** lies and statistics.
That said, hunt1 is correct.
Look at www.geoffthompson.com for some INFORMED comment on the issue.

With that said, it'd be nice to see a link to the original statistics quoted. On close reading of a study it often makes sense but the results are used to draw erroneous conclusions.
I agreed with hunt1, that doesn't mean red5 was incorrect though.
Seen it. It's nice.

[yenhoi]

Useful drill. Its also cool to get your friends and buddys and coworkers to attack you at random.

Be careful not to confuse fighting with self defense. They are not the same thing. The best thing to stop a sucker punch is to not be in a situation where a sucker punch is even a probability.

Talk to Ryu about sucker punches.

[Wilson]

What's so wrong about doing both. Sure, we'd all like to think that our awareness is always at 100% but just the 1 time its not is when you get "sucker" punched. In training, I never want my partner to get into a rhythm where I know the punch is coming and just go thru the motions. This is a huge problem I see at most places I've trained. I also try to mimick real situations - talking smack to my partner, acting ****y, moving and rocking back and forth, then maybe look away and come back with a punch. Changing it up every time gives your partner a different look and a better chance to recognize body mechanics in a more real sense.

With all that said, I like Hunt1's drill and I'll try it. It can't make me worse, so I'll take the chance that it will make me better.

As for sucker punches......move, move, move, move!!!! If you see that hand coming, get out of the way and throw something up, then start your attack from there.

[black and blue]

2.5-3.0 ft away.

One of the hardest things is the mental aspect... to be that close and not have a bridge when the first punch is thrown. Everything happens very fast.

I don't think there are really any set rules as to what to do, but I find I look at the top of my opponent's chest to determine where the punch is coming from, and if they punch with their left hand, I try to turn on my left side and issue with my left hand while intercepting their strike with my right (Right Tan Sau / Left punch/palm for example).

Dealing with knees is the hardest thing for me. Very hard to see them coming. Of course, if you've bridged (once the first punch is thrown), you can feel their intention to knee through their bridge.

[vingtsunstudent]

hi Ludeviews
have you ever had to keep your awareness whilst dealing with multiple opponents?
well i have and i can tell you that it ain't as easy as what some might have you believe, i was given a busted zygomatic arch(which required surgury to get the bloody thing back in place)for my attempt to do so one night whilst doing security.
chances are that if you have to then good reflexes as taught in these drills will definitly come in handy.
that said, i will again state that awareness is a big part of it not happening but it won't save you all the time and for those on here who wish to argue that it will, then my response is you have so far -
a) been lucky so far
b) have not yet been in enough situations to talk with authority on the matter
c) you have not been put in that situation at all yet and are just speculating
d) maybe you're Geoff Thompson
to my good friend vt108
definetly try for simultaneous attack and defence fook da and tan da, when making a mistake or not being quite quick enough you can easily turn these into bong or pak to save your a$$, if you are finding that you have time to use your pivoting in any form or footwork with this then it should be odvious that you still have time for more efficiency with your hands.
i like to think of it like this, even though the arms are by the side doesn't mean that they are not in a ready position, the elbows may not be moving but they already have a foward intent that will let them move very quickly to centre, just like a gunfighter in the old west, your all ready for the quick draw.(if your hands are lifeless then that is one more thought your brain actually has to send to the hands to move them before they will do just that but if you already have that intent then you are already half way there - i'm sorry but this is really one of those things that is hard to explain and may need to be shown to fully be understood)
again this may be a bit difficult to explain and even understand without seeing but by bringing the hands straight to the centre your partners strike will almost dictate what you will do, for this you really need to be at a good chi sao level and use the feel.
9 times out of 10 i generally end up with tan da as the hands coming straight up through the centre will almost form a wedge to which your partner, even when throwing a very straight punch, will have to go around the outside.
really all this needs to be shown as i feel my skills of communicating this are probably not doing it justice, also there are so many little things that need to be show and spoken about that just can't be explain in this medium.
i hope i have been able to sort of put this into words and that it may be of some help but if not i'm sorry and hope you aren't even more confused than when i started(because i think i am)
vts

[Shisio]

I agree with Wilson, Yenhoi, & Red. It sounds like your doing reflex and awarness training for practicality, not the ring. My gripe is many schools have great sport fighters, but like Tito Ortiz, may just get beat on the street. I especially like the idea of a discontent coworker taking a swing at me, I doubt they'd hold back. And even though newbie's make the biggest mistakes, they surprise me more then any BB.

But what are you going to do if your training partner really slugs you? People still get knocked out with headgear on, and how easy is it for someone to throw 100% and still pull back every time? If I'm pulling back then I'm not throwing 100%. I'd worry more that your training might turn into a fight.

I've had Wc save my arse from sucker punches, and then again I've gotten a bat to the back of the head. What was the difference? One time I knew something was coming. So I tip my hat to Red, for the awareness element. But still, no one's going to always be 100% aware, so the reaction training is good. Wc already incorprorates a ton of that though. One of my favorite moves to defend against the sucker punch everybody already knows. Throw your hands up, like an extended boxing shield. It should deflect the punch and cover you (you also can start with your hands down), though moving works better.

If you want to apply Wc to the street, why not pick up JKD?

[Merryprankster]

No offense, but even though his centerline is open, by moving INTO him, you are PLAYING into his hand. This guy's HUGE, he's not going to back up, and unless you REALLY know your stuff on the inside (and I mean how to avoid getting power bombed by somebody who wants to lift you and crush you), then you're going to get mauled. Don't think your punches are going to stop this guy unless you manage to crush his throat--and we all know how likely that is. Kick the knee out? SURE--do you have any idea how stable his legs are with all that muscle mass and his thick joints? You're going to knock him out? Not with that neck and his traps. Be a little realistic here!

Screw holes in his game, this guy would maul me, you and about 99% of the rest of the population in a street fight where numbers and weapons didn't come into play.

If you're lucky, you'll get a chance to run. If you're stupid you'll "exploit his centerline," and get stomped for your trouble.

[Wilson]

MP is right on the money. The main advantage most of us would have against this guy is that we can faster and longer than him. Martial arts is about self-preservation. Running away from this guy is self preservation.

I'm all for positive attitude and killer instinct, but you've got to be realistic. The amount of time this guy has trained for athletic competition and mental toughness would dwarf the amount of time most of us spend training. Pick your battles wisely.

Is he beatable in the ring.....sure, let Rickson give it a shot. In a dark alley.....I'm running.

[vingtsunstudent]

hi merryprankster
if you read what i said before you will know that i am almost in total agreement with you.
like i said for the most part a man this size would only need to run at you and that force would be enough to severely damage most anybody however i have a seen many times that a small man can knock a bigger guy down with but one punch in the right spot, granted it may have to be very very very lucky but still it can happen.
whether it be your luck that he has his mouth open(thus making his jaw all the more vunerable to a good or lucky blow) or luck that he has a glass jaw or luck that he just doesn't have any heart and is just a big man relying on that as intimidation or luck that his mind is somewhere else(we must also remember that in a tournament you know why your there and you going to be very focused however in the street thing can happen very suddenly for almost no reason sometimes and that can be a big difference), hell you may even be lucky enough to be blessed with good technique(dare i say this merryprankster but there probably some wing chun people otu there who could very well bada$$es too you know), i don't think that taking any sort of a negative attitude into a fight, especially if there is no avioding it, is going to stand you in good stead to win let alone survive such an encounter.
just to let you know, if it were me having to face a man like that i would definitely do whatever was humanly possible to get away from him without having to engage, but that said, you must rember that if contact must be made we can all only go with what we know and have faith in ouselves and our system.
all in all what you said is more true than most would probably like to believe.
vts

[vingtsunstudent]

very true and well said wilson.
vts

[Merryprankster]

vts,

Hey, I'm right there with you. And I believe there are some amzing WC guys out there. I'm sure there are! And I would use everything I had to get away from this guy. Exploitation isn't an issue here--staying away from that steamroller of a monster is!

I'm more commenting on those who seem to think his "weaknesses" can be "exploited," by a normal sized person.

[Merryprankster]

Actually Wilson, Nogueira beat him by Armbar!!

[Wilson]

Good stuff MP.

See everyone, piece of cake! All you have to do is take him down and throw on the ol' arm bar. That's the weakness.

*notice the wink* - sarcasm everyone! I've seen that go unnoticed in many posts on here.

[vingtsunstudent]

''I'm more commenting on those who seem to think his "weaknesses" can be "exploited," by a normal sized person''

i do understand and you are absolutely correct, but i think you should have added '' by a normal size person who isn't a freakish fighter or technician'' and/or ''a nomal size person who has the idea of explioting them and has the luck of the gods on their side to help them pull it off against that freak''
we both know that without these there will many upset people on here, esp. the ones who think i don't have faith in my beloved ving tsun.
vts