Weapons: What is useful and what is not?

[Toddzilla]

I am a weapons fanatic. So I am curious as to everyone's take on the learning of weapons. Are they useful and practical for today? Or are they merely a preservation of traditional sets? What's your opinion?
What weapons do you learn? Just curious about your responses.

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It is better to have not fought at all, than to have won a thousand battles.- Chee Kim Thong

[nospam]

It depends on your take on the subject. Weapons hold a deep rooted tradition to kung fu, so if you're a traditionalist, weapon's might be important for that reason.

Interest, such as you mentioned (be a fanATIC) would be a reason to learn them. I'm somewhat mixed. Weapon's are cool, but they are not integral to my system. Therefore they are more of an aside.

In terms of being practical, I'd say the pole and sword would provide one with enough knowledge to apply their techniques to almost any other weapon found, whether that be a car's antena to a baseball bat or some other schtik. Know what I mean?

I think it would be most practical nowadays to learn how to disarm weapons rather than learn most MA weapons, ie) knife, moving around a bat, and perhaps the pistola defense (just incase). This would fall into the self-defense aspect of our various arts. Then for a reward...snake out the chain whip (not the rubber baton) and twirl until your hearts content.

Oh yeah, baby. Oh...weapon's fighting is awesome! Majority of practitioner's know how to move their weapon's according to their patterns, but take it into the realm of 2-person let's get it on! and a whole new worlds out there. Whenever I use weapons, I get animalistic or at least try to. At this stage of the game, it's hurt or be hurt.

[Big Dog]

I agree with nospam and would like to add an observation.

There are many activities/hobbies people take on just to do something with their hands (get you mind out of the gutter!) such as garening, woodworking, painting, etc... stuff that also gets them away from spending so much time in the left side of their brain and shift to the right side, the creative side.

Weapons training would also fall into this category - do it just because its fun and relaxing and ooooo don't the people stare when you do it in public!

Anyways, that's kind where I am these days with my weapons. Some for tradition, some for practicality, most for simple fun. Nothing like a quality piece of wood or steel in your hands!

Peace

Bob

[Sam]

The weapons forms of Fut Sao Wing Chun as taught by James Cama Sifu contains not only the weapons fighting concepts but also the little known "Ging" power development and Dim Mak theory. Mook Yan Jong and weapons develope different ging's.

[Very Ignorant Mantis]

I think one of the most beautiful weapons is one of the simplest (and most pragmatic) - the long staff.

Staff fighting and forms are just plain cool. Is there a broom around? You're armed!

Humbly /IM

[HappyPuppy]

Well, I think, for self-defense, the best w e a p o n s would be the k n i f e, Stick (Which can be adapted to many things like a broom handle, baseball bat, etc) a pole (Which can also be adapted to many different things, like a hockey stick, etc) one of those big, heavy flashlights (Mag-lites) and a g u n.
Ah, well, correct me if I'm wrong, though. I've never actually been in a street confrontation.


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GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF

[SimonM]

I am the threadromancer.

What has changed since we discussed this 12 years ago? Anything?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am the threadromancer.

What has changed since we discussed this 12 years ago? Anything?

I am even more awesome than I was 12 years ago.

[Grasshopper101]

I am a weapons fanatic. So I am curious as to everyone's take on the learning of weapons. Are they useful and practical for today? Or are they merely a preservation of traditional sets? What's your opinion?
What weapons do you learn? Just curious about your responses.

------------------
It is better to have not fought at all, than to have won a thousand battles.- Chee Kim Thong

Are you asking which are most effective for fighting against other traditional weapons, or for modern self defense?

[ShaolinDan]

Well, I'm sure it hasn't changed in the last twelve years, but to me (to my Shifu also) traditional weapons training is still useful (though probably less useful than it used to be) for a couple of reasons.

1. Overall coordination/physical training. Learning to manipulate an object like it's an extension of one's own body is just a good and transpose-able learning experience. It's also a kind of weight training. My school does a lot of chin na--weapons work is great grip and wrist strengthening, and also wrist/hand mobility training. Also weapons work gives good feedback on power generation.

2. Lot's of makeshift weapons today are similar, if not identical to traditional weapons.
broomstick=staff, shovel=kwan dao or monk's spade, cane/umbrella=sword/stick, etc... (if I knew how to do it I'd make those 'approximately' signs instead of equal signs)

(Also [this is just my reason], it's just fun to 'play' with traditional weapons. )

[TenTigers]

the way I was taught Kali, is the way I teach the dan-dao. Stick drills, counters, disarms, etc, then I teach the form. In this way, the movements can be used for a machete, bat, tire iron,etc.
Staff is useful, both as a weapon, and as a power developmental training aid.
Kuan dao and Tiger Fork allow one to use the momentum of a heavy, non-symetrically balanced object-such as a no-parking sign.

The Hakka Butterfly knives are extensions of the hands.
All relevant.

[ginosifu]

I train and teach all traditional and non traditional weapons for enhancing fighting abilities in modern combat.

the way I was taught Kali, is the way I teach the dan-dao. Stick drills, counters, disarms, etc, then I teach the form. In this way, the movements can be used for a machete, bat, tire iron,etc.
Staff is useful, both as a weapon, and as a power developmental training aid.
Kuan dao and Tiger Fork allow one to use the momentum of a heavy, non-symetrically balanced object-such as a no-parking sign.

The Hakka Butterfly knives are extensions of the hands.
All relevant.

Good stuff TT. I agree all can be modified for any combat situation.

My favorite 3 weapon for modern combat:

Cane: Cane can be carried at any time as a walking aid and use immediately in combat. I have Cane forms that I teach and it is similar to any sword or kali technique.

Kung Fu Fan: Fan is another weapon that can be carried legally at any time (unlike guns and swords). The Fan is good for quick distractions and also can be used to poke the eyes and various pressure points.

Daggers: Daggers are my favorite of all. Any small item that can fit into your hand is a dagger. Pen, scissors, keys, cell phone, fork, knife etc etc. Since they are small, they can be concealed and or carried easily. Also thet can be picked up and used easily.

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

I train and teach all traditional and non traditional weapons for enhancing fighting abilities in modern combat.



Good stuff TT. I agree all can be modified for any combat situation.

My favorite 3 weapon for modern combat:

Cane: Cane can be carried at any time as a walking aid and use immediately in combat. I have Cane forms that I teach and it is similar to any sword or kali technique.

Kung Fu Fan: Fan is another weapon that can be carried legally at any time (unlike guns and swords). The Fan is good for quick distractions and also can be used to poke the eyes and various pressure points.

Daggers: Daggers are my favorite of all. Any small item that can fit into your hand is a dagger. Pen, scissors, keys, cell phone, fork, knife etc etc. Since they are small, they can be concealed and or carried easily. Also thet can be picked up and used easily.

ginosifu

After some legal issues some years ago, I no longer choose to carry a knife or three.
Now I look at non-apparent weapons, such as fans, cane, keychains, and recently I've discovered these really cool book place holder, which is built exactly like a sap-leather with a double-teardrop shape and a lead weight in the end.You lay it on an open book to keep it from closing when you're reading. It'll drop someone real good.
I also have these nifty flat, brass Chinese bookmarks, which without sharpening will still make a good slashing tool.
Someone once showed me how to sharpen the edge of the clasp of a wristwatch band, which when opened, makes a nice emergency cutting tool.
I had a ballistic pen...but I tend to lose things...
Reading Shibumi, by Trevanian was a real inspiration!

[SimonM]

After some legal issues some years ago, I no longer choose to carry a knife or three.
Now I look at non-apparent weapons, such as fans, cane, keychains, and recently I've discovered these really cool book place holder, which is built exactly like a sap-leather with a double-teardrop shape and a lead weight in the end.You lay it on an open book to keep it from closing when you're reading. It'll drop someone real good.
I also have these nifty flat, brass Chinese bookmarks, which without sharpening will still make a good slashing tool.
Someone once showed me how to sharpen the edge of the clasp of a wristwatch band, which when opened, makes a nice emergency cutting tool.
I had a ballistic pen...but I tend to lose things...
Reading Shibumi, by Trevanian was a real inspiration!

I used to have a Kubotan keychain. Don't know what ever happened to it. Got asked about it by a bouncer once but I said, "it's a keychain," and he let it slide.

[Jimbo]

I suppose my favorite CMA weapon is the long staff. In CLF, we trained applications and sparring with padded staffs. The padding did affect the grip, since it made the staff "fatter," but it was a good training method. Then, when you held a regular staff, your grip and control were far better. Also, many of the same skills can be adapted to a short staff or long tool handle.

My second-favorite would be the dan do (broadsword). Because, like TenTigers already mentioned, its movements can be adapted to other objects, in particular a machete.

I also like the northern spear, which I trained a lot when I lived overseas, but have since stopped practicing it. I actually haven't trained any MA weapons for several years now, but the muscle memory is still there with the staff and basic dan do. I never liked a lot of the different or more showy CMA weapons; I like the basic ones the best.

Regarding knives, I carry one wherever I can; lately, a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 which, despite its moniker, is a fairly basic, nondescript, mid-sized folder. However, I carry and use it as a cutting tool and not necessarily as a weapon. It could be used as such in an emergency, but that's not really my reason for carrying it. I like it because it's light, strong, easy to carry, and cuts exceedingly well. When I grew up, almost every man or boy I knew carried some type of pocketknife for various chores. It's sad that nowadays, most people consider somebody "armed" if they're carrying a tiny little penknife.