Origin Of Hung Gar Forms/Sets?

[Kung Lek]

Hello-

I practice with Kwan Do. It is a definitely strong set and requires stamina.

I'm not sure if the weapon derives its' name from Gwan Dee/Gwan Gong the "patron saint" of Martial Arts and Restaurants. (no kidding on the restaurant thing, check the ancestral house(toi sun)next time your out having Kung Pao).

Kwan also means "Pole" or "Staff" therefore, I have known it to mean "Pole Knife" It is afterall a Big Knife blade attached to a Pole.

Peace

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Kung Lek

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Kung Lek, I think you are mistaken on the word "kwan". In this sense it is the surname "kwan". The term for staff is totally different "kwun".

You are right about General Kwan being a patron saint for more than just martial matters, he is also important for business, banking, and about 50 other things, hehe.

I am a little confused about the name for General Kwan's weapon. Some people say it is "green dragon sweeping moon", "green dragon playing with the moon", and "green dragon swallowing the moon". Can anybody back up any of the phrases?

About the tiger fork, there is a common saying in southern martial arts "jing jai do, bun jai cha". The smart boy uses the broadsword, the dumb boy uses the fork.

[bean curd]

i also know the kwan dao of general kwan wun cheung as, " ching lung ngan yuet dao".

the name variation can happen depending on your interpretation of the characters.

it is also known as," halbert with a green dragon and a crescent moon"

to compare the usage of the dao and the yu gar dai pa, with a quote, does not reveal the intricises of both these marvelous weapons. i have never heard poems or boxing transmissions bring the strength of a weapon into question.

for myself i have never heard of this quote,
all the poems that i have ever heard and know only promote the usage and the postures of the individual weapon.

from history, it is the ability of the user to defeat the foot soldier who would use the single sword and the rattan shield with the dai pa that made it so famous, and from those that i know who play this weapon, take pride in their ability to use it.

it was also carried by great soldiers who would show there strength and courage by subduing tigers with it

from a hung gar perspective, the dao is the first metal weapon used with the monkey staff, to introduce the player to the understanding of the usages, for and against the different weapons.

because of the requirments to learn the dia pa and how foundation is important to its usage, the dai pa is held for much later, when the kwan dao is also introduced.

regarding the picure, those with kwan wun cheung are kwan ping (his son) and the dark faced one is his loyal general, chow chong

regards

[mantis108]

Interest posts on the Dai Pa

To be fair, the Chinese languge is ambiguous most of the time. There are lot of plateaus to a simple phrase. One might said that Chinese play charads all time. Being a Chinese, It's sometimes pretty tough for me to understand some Chinese saying, too.

Here's my take on that quote. I think it refers to the charaterstics of the weapon. In comparison, the Do is light and agile. whereas, the Pa is heavy and slow. This is relative, of course. Fancy or smart moves make the Do more "alive". It is smart to be dumb sometimes (mind you, the Chinese like paradox). The simple and plain moves, certain contrast the fancy and smart, is most suitable for the heavy Dai Pa. The word "Bun" can be interpreted as Heavy/Slow as in "Bun Chong (being heavy and slow)"

These type of charads are meant to be mind training, too. After all, One's preception on things and events would have an impact on his or her Kung Fu.

Peace to all

Mantis108

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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Beancurd, you said "regarding the picture". Which picture are you talking about?

With the tiger fork, just look at the name "tiger fork". This implies that it is for hunting tigers. The main weapons in the army were broadswords and spears. Dealing with cavalry and anti-cavalry, you start having horse cutters and kwan do's.

When it comes to fighting someone armed with a shield and broadsword, the common weapon is any type of dai do, because you can cut through the shield.

I'm not saying that only stupid people practice the tiger fork. I like the weapon, and practice it myself. But there are only so many ways to use a weapon like that. Broadsword has more techniques, is more practical, and it is better to train for today's environment.

Broadsword and staff are taught first because of their importance, practicality, and they are the first step to learning other weapons. Tiger fork was taught to me as a beginner's weapon. Flexible weapons and straightsword are the more advanced weapons.

[WongFeHung]

the version of Moi Fa that I learned is actually called 'Moi Fa Sup Fu Kuen" or plum flower cross tiger (ten tigers-cool, huh?)fist. It goes in a cross pattern (sup ji) and has short foward and back rat steps, trapping, re-trapping, power generation similar to the metal fist in Hsing-Yi,(in our form the seurng fu-jow slam down and winds foward with full body integration)there is also a body torque silk reeling energy corkscrewing uppercut(combined with a back of neck hook) and the pulsing shock power in the double butterfly palms. This form is taught in layers, one version being the most basic, followed by a more advanced version, followed by yet another version. These versions are actually not different forms, but the same form utilizing different qualities of energy and body technique previously mentioned.The form is taught on a higher level when the student is ready. Most people don't get into this form at that level because they look at it as a beginner's form and forget about it when they learn the longer forms. There are no beginner forms in Hung Ga, but there are shorter ones! This form has no relation to the northern shaolin Moi Fa Kuen.Everyone and their uncle has a moi fa form-Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut, Mantis, etc. Moi fa has all the symbology which has already been mentioned, and another, which is symbolic of the overthrow of the Ching-the plum blossom is the first sign of life out of the dead of winter. Wing Chun uses this symbol as well. It means hope for the future and the rebirth of the Ming Dynasty.
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