The myth of todays kung fu fighting exposed

[Phantom Menace]

BT and Moashan,

I still think you should fight a high level BJJ, submission or vale tudo fighter as I suggested.

[CD Lee]

Lets say Phantom is right...who knows. But it did shock me to find that some guy put up 5000.00 to fight a BJJ guy??? What is that all about?

I thought these BJJ dudes and grapplers are all too eager to choke us Kung Fu dudes out. Why would they require 5K to fight a kung fu guy, especially one like that clip had?

So if BT wanted to fight a decent or even good BJJ player, do you think he would actually have to bone up 5K or whatever? That alone means I would never fight one. I say if you must fight one, go to the bar and start a fight with one. It is free and you can have a drink afterwards.

[count]

what's up? I haven't had time to post lately but I wanted to contribute to the many myths you guys have been exploding here. First I have to agree with CD Lee. Maoshan, I'm sure you could have made your point without digging up an old clip of a "kung fu san soo" guy with no skills. But hey, their still debating over fights from more than 50 years ago as examples of internal martial arts on the other forums. I have to ask again if you are considering how martial arts is marketed in the first place? If you go by statistics, there are probably more than 10 million people in this country alone at a martial arts school of one kind or another. Yes, it's probably a trillion dollar industry worldwide. How many students do you think would keep coming back to class if they got their a$$es kicked every other day? That kind of training is useful to some, necessary to others but for most of the martial artist on the planet, they will never get in a real fight in the first place. No, I agree with you but I must say you aren't going to convert too many people posting on the internet. Keep teaching and putting on those tournaments and you'll find a few people who are serious enough. And when the winter gets too cold for you in NY come on out here for a visit. Maybe "Phantom Menace" can grapple your a$$ while your here.

PS: Any statistics given are from internet polls and are not scientific.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by CD Lee
Lets say Phantom is right...who knows. But it did shock me to find that some guy put up 5000.00 to fight a BJJ guy??? What is that all about?

I thought these BJJ dudes and grapplers are all too eager to choke us Kung Fu dudes out. Why would they require 5K to fight a kung fu guy, especially one like that clip had?

CD
It was the KF San Soo guy who made a challenge to any BJJ guy who wanted to step up, that he would put up 5000$ winner take all.
BJJ guys don't require money to fight gung fu guys, but since the offer was made, John Marsh, proffesional MMA fighter, took the easy money.

By the way, our old friend Knifefighter can be seen in a portion of that video.

[Muppet]

I would ask my teacher as Maoshan suggests of all things martial. However, as BT suggests, he might be teaching me fake sh!t, in which case I can only find out by fighting him unreahearsed to see if I can kick his @ss. However, I could actually suck quite a bit more than I think and still get my ass kicked even though he skill level 'could' be lower than I think. In which case, I make the foolhardy conclusion that he beat me due to his superior internal skill.

If you need to go this route, the solution to this is easy: Get yourself in shape while training in one or two well-known fighting style like boxing, muay thai, wrestling, bjj/judo, etc. for a couple of years.

Then spend a year or so sparring in a MMA club (if you're not in one already) to balance yourself out, get pointers, and get a taste of sparring from different people and styles.

At this point, if you've practiced dilligently, you should probably be a better fighter than most of the people you meet out there, not to mention in good shape.

Ask the teacher to a match. If he gets his ass whupped, then you know that the teacher doesn't have anything to offer.

If he holds his own or kicks your ass--especially if he's a lot older--then you know the guy has something.

Whether or not he'll actually teach it to you is a different matter.

[Phantom Menace]

Count,

I'm not interested in grappling anyone's a$$. I'm not into that. Silly monkey.

BT,

Count doesn't speak for me. I'm not interested in grappling you a$$, but I will spar/roll with you. You're welcome to visit if you're ever in Ca.

[blacktaoist]

Yo, this issue is getting boring. we all have our veiwpoints on what we think martial arts should be like. All I'm doing is posting my veiws nothing more, nothing less. And I still stand by my opinions,and I'm willing to back them up to the best of my skill level.


C.D. Lee

Kung fu in my opinion is about a individual struggle with the real world, internally and externally with physical aggression, mind, body, and spirt. philosophy is about developing your own ideas from an observation of life and living life. Also interacting with other people in life. Philosoply is not just about reading other Taoist individuals interpretation of war and life. This can only give us an idea of these individuals thoughts during that older generation.

As time change, people change. as well thoughts and techniques. Now I don't have anything against philosophy, but for me philosophy is about living life for yourself not following others . Take what is practical and discard what is Bull$hit.


So if BT wanted to fight a decent or even good BJJ player, do you think he would actually have to bone up 5K or whatever? That alone means I would never fight one. I say if you must fight one, go to the bar and start a fight with one. It is free and you can have a drink afterwards.

C.D. Lee my occupation is security, I sometimes work at a lot of nightclubs(hip-Hop) for extra money in the New York City area, so I had my share of bar fights and even dance floor fights were $hit gets outrageous to the pont where I have to hurt a person real bad.

I just think many people up here never been in these kinds of situations, I have, and I have seen people get beat down. No one on one fight, one man fighting against many MEN!! This is the $hit I see most of the time and the $hit I have to look out for when dong my Job.

So when I see these bull$hit posters, talking about so-called Chi Skills and the internal is not about fighting, well I just...LOL because I know these kinds of people don't know $hit about the real world fighting.

But in the end of all my thoughts, to tell you the truth I'm not mad at anyone up here, Because as I said before we all have our own veiwpoints about the internal martial arts. I just feel there are a hell of a lot of individuals up here that don't train like they claim.

Count what's up.

Now what do it matter if its a old movie clip. Truth is truth. And there is no debating that $hit. Maoshan points is well genuine and valid, theres no getting around that $hgat no matter how you look at it.The guy claim Kung Fu (not kickboxing) And I don't care if it was internal or external the man claim KUNG FU, and he got beat down, that's all to it.

Is this not a martial art discussion forum here. What's up a individual can't put footage of a martial art match to make a valid point. Don't hate the game , hate the player. Sometimes you win in the martial art game, and sometimes you lose, But this guy had no skills at all to be a true player of the martial art game. So like most that are not true to the martial art game, the martial art is not going to be true to you. You find this out the hard way, just like this poor guy did.
Be true to your art, and your art will be true to you.

I have a video of a person fighting at the UFC that claim he train in BaGuaZhang, the guy was fat as hell, and he got beat down fast, knockout by a submission fighter.

So I can understand where Phantom Menace is coming from with is veiws, and his feelings about internal martial artists, me and my brother.

Count, the hell waiting for Ben to come visit you guys. Maybe Phantom Menace can visit your Sifu. You good old BaguaZhang boys down there can show the man a thing or two. After all your teacher is a BaGuaZhang expert, and you guys are not far from him , I love to know how Phantom Menace submission abiliity do against you guys. I alrady know from meeting you, your nuts, and with be willing to compare skills with the man.

[CD Lee]

Muppet said:

If you need to go this route, the solution to this is easy: Get yourself in shape while training in one or two well-known fighting style like boxing, muay thai, wrestling, bjj/judo, etc. for a couple of years.

Then spend a year or so sparring in a MMA club (if you're not in one already) to balance yourself out, get pointers, and get a taste of sparring from different people and styles.

At this point, if you've practiced dilligently, you should probably be a better fighter than most of the people you meet out there, not to mention in good shape.

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous saying that is easy. That is not an easy solution. That is a complicated and expensive way to find your first kung fu teacher. I want to learn an internal Kung Fu, so I have to spend say three to five years just so I can go out and test a kung fu Sifu to see if I can learn anything? I can get a Masters Degree faster than I could find a good teacher right.

If you are going to go that route, then forget martial arts altogether. Go to a real boxing gym and train to actually fight for six months to a year, and get some real matches under your belt, and at that point you can whip 95 percent of everybody's @ss on the planet. You could whip plenty of martial arts guys too. And, it is a lot faster. My Sifu has done boxers, and he says they are a real bear to fight.

[blacktaoist]

Phantom Menace, I'm all game for some friendly sparring. I try my best to visit Ca next year, Also I told count I was going to vist his ass before. He told me he take me around Ca. to visit a few BaGuaZhang people. I hope their ass can Fight.

[Phantom Menace]

BT,

I'm a Bagua guy as well. Surprise? When you visit we can play.

[blacktaoist]

Man your joking right I just knew you was some kind of BJJ practitioner. But its all good I love to play with you. Yo, what style of BaGuaZhang do you practice, and who your sifu?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Empty Fist


I disagree. Bottom line it is easier to grab clothes vs grabbing skin. That’s why the BBJ guy was only wearing shorts. Why didn’t he wear a gi? Because he wanted to be at an advantage. Kudos for him thinking.

It's harder, but can be dealt with. Grapplers do it all the time in no gi competitions. Shuai chiao players do it also.


Take out the eyes.

Easier said than done on a moving, resisting opponent. On the ground however, it would be much easier...

You mention cross training. Any fighter that cross trains in other martial arts will be a better fighter. That’s why Bruce Lee invented Jeet Kune Do. His art was constantly evolving taking the best of and martial arts and wrapping into one form. The lesson from Bruce, always keep an open mind to learning. Bottom line…any martial artist is at a great disadvantage if they don’t know ground techniques.

Kinda, but not necessarily. You'll get out of the arts what you put into them. if you half ass it, then that's what you'll get back, whether you cross train or not.

[wiz cool c]

since 1993 the first ufc it has been proven you have to know some ground defence. almost 10 years latter and people still think there kung fu is flawless. If your ganna use you skills in a match like that you got to know basic defence againt comen things on the ground. So that if you do get taken down you can defend and get back up and use your kung fu right. I do think there are experts of internal kung fu that could kill these guys but they are usally older masters of there stile and would never go and chalenge a competitive atholete to a fight. But here is an exsample of what i think is a good kung fu teacher that trains to fight. One school i had a brief experence with was Yees hung gar on Henry street. The teacher there is very good he would sparr the whole class one student after the other. He would compete in kung fu sparring tournements. On the weekend they would have specail sparring classes where they would do boxing stuff sometimes and they learned grappling stuff sometimes as well hit pads sparred full contact.

[Phantom Menace]

BT, I wouldn't be a phantom menace if I told you who I am. I usually use my real name everywhere I post, except here.

When you go to So Cal just let me know. I will meet you and take you to my teacher.

[count]

How many notable SC bagua teachers are major proponents of other forms of ground grappling, shuai chaio not included? Phantom Menace, did you pick up your private messages today?