Time for mpegs

[Tainan Mantis]

Mantisben,
Thanks for the encouragement. The Western guy is me. The others are my students.

The girl, Robyn, in the sword clip has just returned to her MA school in Canada.
That is a drill from the final road of Coiling Dragon Jian.
In that road the swords must stick from start to finish.
In the other roads the swords stick and also come apart.

Like the open hand drills I teach the student how to go from one move to another in a non prearranged method.
But first they must practice drills like Pierce the Ear.

The following drill is directly from 8 Step Continuous Punches an old Shaolin Eagle Claw form. It is very similar to 7* PM drills. But in this instance it is only one technique of three punches over and over.

Half way through we go slower, that is slo-mo, not us getting tired out.
Each of these drills are done 100 times a day until the student can jump from one to another at will.

Then some new drill is added.
Many thanks to Yingching for helping me do this video posting.
pierce the ear

[mantis108]

I wrote some of my thoughts about that clip on my forum before. I would like to share it here and also further some more thought on it.

I have recently received my copy of Kevin's video "BaBu Lienhuanquan", which I am going to do a more indepth review. After watching it over and over again, something finally clicks. In the middle of the video, there is a section on a drill call the "Wai Qua Shou" (outer hanging hand/punch), which I learned form Kevin while he was visiting. This short drill consist mainly of 3 Mantis hands - a round House punch, a pu chui (actually looks more like a tong chui) and a hanging hand punch (Qua Da). This drill is kind of like a hanger which you may "hang" or connect other techniques onto it (ie inner pu chui). Anyway, my point is that the sheer speed of the drill is amazing as demonstrated by Kevin and his student. This is partly the result of the design of the drill which has included a few of the PM's 8 hard principles. While I was revisiting Sifu Carl Albright's Webpage about the 8 Hards of PM, I came to a realization all of a suddent. A drill that is based on some of the 8 Hard when done in proper speed, which essentially is power, is in fact looking like 2 giant praying mantis flexing their talons at each other! Slashing and Chopping with their claws in remarkable speed and making a stance (see also Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon)! So I come to think that 8 Hard or at least some of them in fact epitomize the fast flexing of the Mantis talons during their very own ultimate fighting championish and was observed plus was noted by Josi Wang Lang. lol.. ;p

BTW, if you haven't got the video, you might really want to go for it. And if you ask me, I'd say it's a must buy.

As Tainan Mantis explained to me and after months of hard work I have come to a better understanding of how this drill works especially how it connects with what I do. Basically it is a shadow drill involving 3 punches:

Round House countered by hanging punch
Mid-line left Cross countered by Round house
hanging punch countered by Mid-line left cross

It is kind of a paper-rock-siccors game. But Seriously this is similar in concept to XingYi's 5 Elements 2 men drill. Except that XYQ's drill has footwork while the TLQ Wei Qua Shou don't begin with footwork.

Although it looks continuous and effortless in appearance, the truth is this is one of the most devasting drill. Without a good conditioned forearm, especially the right arm, one will not last through the first or second mid-line left cross (right feng shou in chopping motion and a hard and fast left Tong Chui).

After you are fluid with this, it is possible to add kicks (as in the video), Chin Na, takedown, etc... and other moves in whatever forms that you practice. In my case, there are a few Sau Fa moves from the 64 Taizu Duanda that we can add to it as changes or finishes. It is a lot of fun providing you get yourself a lot of Dit Da Jow first.

Mantis108

[draco]

I have windows xp and loaded quicktime and it works great, I can move the button and place the players in any position I want etc. great.

I like pierce the ear. I see parts from form that I wondered where they apply (the guy on the right with the double fisted punch). Good shots to the solar plexis too. Really nice clips, color, clothing, background.

nice job.

[Tainan Mantis]

This is the part of the form before the pierce the ear technique8 Step Continuous Punches partner version

[Tainan Mantis]

This is a weapon like a short stick, but usually made of metal.
The version we are using is rattan.
It is different from other short stick techniques in that the mechanics of motion are designed for a heavy weapon. This stick can be as long as a walking stick.

whip drill

[mantisrider]

The swords are a little too close to their bodies. they should keep some distance while weapon sparring. they dont really look like they are fighting, or at least pretending to fight.

[Tainan Mantis]

mantisrider,
It sounds like you have practiced 2 person sword techniques.
Do you practice the 7* 2 man sword set?

How do you learn 2 person jian?

[mantisrider]

If you're refering to the form Sarm Chor Gim form.. then the answer is not yet. But I believe I have enough weapon sparring forms experience to make that comment. I apologize if I've offended anyone with my comment.

humbly,

mrider

[Young Mantis]

Actually, I thought the drill was quite interesting and my first thought was kind of the opposite of mantisrider's opinion.

It seems to me that this drill is a lot like Taiji push hands or even wing chun chi sao. The idea being to stick and re-direct your opponents attack, in this case a slice to the knee. As with most sensitivity drills, the main concern is learning to listen to your opponent's intentions. This particular drill is quite nice in that it is not static. Although the attack is limited to slicing the knee and I'm sure the drill is changed for other attacks, it involves both sensitivity in controlling the opponent's sword as well as reacting to the footwork. The footwork I believe makes this drill much more interesting. My thought on the swordwork though was that the cuts or redirections are quite extended away from the body and have very long or high arches. I wonder if the movements are eventually reduced to be more efficient? So that less distance and time is needed before the counterattack?

mantisrider, understand that this is a drill and that it is working many things. Unlike some of the sparring forms that really try to mimic a fighting scenario, drills often do not so as to train very specific skills. Also, Sam Choi Gim or San Cai Jian is not a Mantis form. I believe it's full name is Mo Dang (Wudang) Sam Choi Gim so it would be from the Wudang school of swordplay. This form though is quite popular and has been adopted by many schools into their curriculums.

Tainanmantis, I hope I analyzed the drill correctly. I would be interested in hearing any corrections to what I have said about the drill.

YM

[mantis108]

Hi Young Mantis,

Well said. I agreed with the observations.

Regards

Mantis108

[mantisrider]

Tainan Mantis

I admit that my comment was out of line for judging a form that I'm not familiar with.

Sorry,

mantisrider

[Tainan Mantis]

mantirider,
no problem on the comments, I've been guilty of the same.


Young Mantis,
You really hit the nail on the head with your comments.
This drill repeats from the standpoint of technique, but not so much the actual movement.

When the person starts to run forward they have no idea which direction the retreater is going nor when tthe retreater will suddenly change direction and do the counter attack.
All the time the drill demands that you determine this by "listening" with your sword.

So the distance between the two is a difficult to control variable.

[buddhapalm]

Hi Tainan Mantis,
Great footage.

Are you going to release your video for sale ?

If so, how can I order them ?

I believe I (we) can learn a lot about our styles by delving deeper into the two-man training aspects. I need to learn more on that side of the forms aspect. Even though I do not know Mantis style, but the weapons forms of shaolin styles all seem to share common roots and or characteristics.

Please let me know what is available for purchase and if so, how can I order from you (payment methods, payment address etc).

Hey, you never know, perhaps Gene and the Tiger Claw Gang will distribute it, then I can save on postage.

Warmest regards

Buddhapalm

[Tainan Mantis]

buddhapalm,
Thanks for the kind words about Gene selling my video.
It is 40 dollars money order includes shipping and registered mail.

I'll give more details in private e-mail.

I only have the empty hand video at this time.

I have started the filming on the short stick and sword video. But I wanted to film the free fighting at the end and that student has gone back to Canada before we got that far.
So now I need another professional kung fu student to finish.

That empty hand form is Eagle claw. It has all the same techniques as 7* PM, but the logic that connects each technique is different in some cases.

[Tainan Mantis]

mantisrider and Young Mantis,
Your school teaches this sword form?
I have researched its history for some time and have found it to be from Hsing Yi chuen. But the proof is inconclusive.

This is the first 2 person sword form I learned.
It is also the most well known so I assume it was taught at many of the Guo Shu Guan on the city level before WW2.

In Taiwan there were several teachers who taught this form. Similar, but differences.
The most impressive display I saw were two masters who did the entire two person set in a small room while other masters sat on chairs against the walls without flinching.
It was filmed in the early '60's.

There are 2 7* PM jian forms that I know of that are solo and partner.
The first from WHF is called Zi Wu Jian.
The other from Li Zhanyuan's 7* school is called Tien Gang Jian. Or Heaven Rigid Jian.