View Poll Results: Why did you take up a martial art.

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  • Image

    0 0%
  • Physical well-being

    2 9.52%
  • Spiritual/Mental well-being

    6 28.57%
  • Self defence

    8 38.10%
  • Other

    5 23.81%
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Thread: why are there so few posts on fighting here?

  1. #1
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    why are there so few posts on fighting here?

    Why is it that the vast majority of posts, in the southern styles section of kungfuonline, do not deal with self defense?

    Do we not have the expertise here to answer these questions or the practitioners to ask them?

    Might it be because the majority of posters do not focus their training in that direction? But then why would these people take up a martial art?

    A stock response may be for fitness/health reasons. But why a martial art. Isn't a martial art first and foremost a system to help you defend yourself? If physical and mental well-being are your priorities, do yoga. It's not that ludicrous an idea. It gives you exactly what you want with no other rubbish you don't want or need.

    Maybe they do it for a sense of community. Once again, why a
    martial art. All sports clubs offer that. Most more than a martial arts club does. Think of your local cricket club, a lot of guys only play so they can sit in the pub afterwards.

    Then there's the possibility of doing it just for the image. When you tell someone you do a martial art, they assume you can fight and there's a little bit of mystique attached, so your ego gets stroked a little. But you could get that same boost from playing rugby etc. for your club/school/varsity team. Could it be that some choose a martial arts setting because they cannot get these boosts from other sources because they are not good enough to excel in sports with such a large player base. Then the choice of a martial art makes sense. You find a suitably obscure style or simply one with few practitioners or one with people like you and what do you know! You're a big fish in a little pond! There may be many martial artists in the world, but how many are in your style and do you go out and train with them, or do you stick with the 15 other guys in your class.

    Granted, this is a rather cynical viewpoint, but how else can you explain joining a martial art and not intending to learn to defend yourself.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    sometimes, what people say and what they really feel are two different things. People will easily say they take martial arts for fitness, health, etc, but to say self-defense is to admit fear, and that in itself is a hard thing to do. It is far easier to say self-confidense, self-esteem, which can all be a result of having the capability to protect yourself, and your family.
    Myself? I'm 45 yrs old, don't get into alot of fights, so my reasons have changed somewhat. But when I was a kid, I was bullied, and definately wanted it for that.

  3. #3
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    Southern Hand not for fighting

    People,

    Like I had said earlier, southern kung fu is NOT good for fighting. It is good for lion dancing, dressing up in traditional coustumes and perpetuating old chinese customs. But fighting it is not.

    Southern Kungfu was practised by farmers who hid away from the Ching and other government officials when they rode into town.

    Shaolin temple was populated by weaken monks from too much meditation. They had to devise a type of kung fu to bring their physical health to be on par with the average person at that time.

    Some saliors in the red junk formulated Hung Ga. Rather then for fighting, they used it as a chance to dress up - some as ladies, because in the "navy", most of them were men. They hosted parades and stage shows to please the government officials and the villagers.

    Southern kung fu was practiced by either village people or those in the navy. I am delighted that a fellow friend from the southern hand put up this poll. If he were to have listened to what I'd been saying along, the conclusion would be quite evident.

    I look forward to your response or you can continue tormenting Goktimus. Your choice, pleases me either way.

    By the way, I know of a southern Kung Fu sifu who's too scared to front up to his own challenge against me on national tv even though I'm a cripple.
    Last edited by Ego_Extrodinaire; 11-08-2002 at 04:42 PM.

  4. #4
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    Why is it that the vast majority of posts, in the southern styles section of kungfuonline, do not deal with self defense?
    I'll tell you why, because Southern Kung Fu styles kick ass and everyone knows it. Choy Lay Fut, Hung Ga, Southern Praying Mantis, Bak Mei, Lung Ying, White Crane, etc. are all kick ass, no frills styles. We don't sit around wondering whether are stuff actually works, we know it does, in every situation. We don't sit around talking about usless metaphysical concepts like chi, we train hard, we make our legs solid, we make out bodies resistant to attack by conditioning them and we do freestyle sparring where people actually hit each other. For those of you that missed it....southern kung fu kicks ass!!!!!

  5. #5
    ..uhm could it be that the vast majority of fighting questions are asked and thereby answered on Street/Reality Fighting & Kung Fu forum..???? Huh? Huh? Maybe? Ya thunk??

    Besides, this space is best used for important threads such as the HISTORY of CLF

    nospam.

  6. #6
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    'Besides, this space is best used for important threads such as the HISTORY of CLF '

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nuff said... thank you. It is foolish to downplay another set group of styles, it only adds weakness to your arsenal.


    Diu Sao

    Former northern stylist

  7. #7
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    F-Pow:

    I've seen wing chun players getting beatern up in a UFC ring and agaisnt boxers. My experience agaisnt southern kung fu players of many school lends support to what I have seen. I agree Southern kung fu is "no frills" to the extent that all who practice them are short changed.

    nospam:

    I actually agree with you. This is because there's a gulf between what you practice in southern kung fu compared to what is useful for real life self defence.

    Diu Sao:

    If you think that reading history is more important than discussing combat tactics, then you be a historican not a kung fu fighter. Maybe that's because the fighting quality of CLF is so poor that all it has going is fabricated stories.

    People:

    If you find that debating with me is too much of an interlectual challenge, you can always torment that goktimus whipping boy of yours who doesn't seem to be botherned with you anyway. Again its your choice!
    Last edited by Ego_Extrodinaire; 11-08-2002 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #8
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    Actually I know very little about the history of CLF, as I am new to the style. I been in a street gang, prison and I am a body guard. I am no stranger to violence and have had my share of the worst. I have been shot at, beaten by police/prison guards, stabbed 4 different times (in the stomach and neck) and beaten until my skull fractured. I have gone to jail 3 times for assault and battery. If there is one thing I know, it's fighting, even before I started martial arts. I love discussions on techniques and philosophy, but I feel that to bad mouth a group of styles should be beneath you. I have read many intellegent posts by you and I would think you'd stay away from that. I am not trying to start an arguement I just think there are better things to say and discuss. Thanks for the reply though.


    Diu Sao

  9. #9
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    Actually I know very little about the history of CLF, as I am new to the style. I been in a street gang, prison and I am a body guard. I am no stranger to violence and have had my share of the worst. I have been shot at, beaten by police/prison guards, stabbed 4 different times (in the stomach and neck) and beaten until my skull fractured. I have gone to jail 3 times for assault and battery.
    lol....I think you should change your handle to "Lucky."

  10. #10
    Wow Diu Sao, I thought you were a kid.

  11. #11
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    Wicked someone who wants to answer my questions on 'fighting'.

    How do i 'block' a leading leg hook punch?
    Is there an 'effective' way to counter a double leg when your opponent already has hold of both your knees - while remaining on your feet?
    Whats the best 'gaurding' postion vs a boxer?
    Is it more effective to pivot on the ball of the foot or the heel?
    Is a palm more 'effective' than a fist?
    Whats the 'most painfull' move that you can do to someone?


    I hope you can see where im going here.
    Talking about fighting is great fun but to be honest its a load of bs. Its compleately subjective and whatever you say i could say something almost opposite and still be perfectly correct.

    If i ask you how to block a jab and you respond by saying 'duck' then i can simply say 'why not slip'?

    This is likely the reason you dont see many posts along these lines. Most of us realise its a little bit futile to try and glean actual fighting *skill* of the internet. Sure you can learn about history or many other interesting things. However i would hardly use it as a way of trying to learn counters or techniques.
    Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
    ------------------------------------
    Shaped dragon and looking monkey, sitting tiger and turning eagle.


    "I wonder how they would do against jon's no-tension fu. I bet they'd do REALLY WELL."
    - Huang Kai Vun

  12. #12
    Fu-Pow.

    lol....I think you should change your handle to "Lucky."

    ..aint that the truth

    Ego_Extrodinaire

    This is because there's a gulf between what you practice in southern kung fu compared to what is useful for real life self defence.

    Seeing that this is but a written forum, we're all entitled to opinion. And you know what? For the most part I agree with you too, but in a much broader sense of the term, 'fighting' ability and MA.

    MAs today is crap. Most do not enter it to fight and when you get a new generation of teachers who are not fighters, then that lineage, no matter the style, is watered down. I've been saying this for a long time.

    Plus, to be a good fighter takes something other than what your teacher is capabe of teaching. It is a personality trait. I believe this trait can be massaged to an extent, but if you don't have it..you don't have it. And there are some MA styles out there in combination with teachers who have that 'trait' that can and have taught students even with an avg sense of the 'trait' to become proficient to good fighters using, again, a combination of MA style and natural ability.

    Now, most of us would like to believe we are the select few with the trait and even luckier still, to have that teacher who can teach one to fight. But the reality is most of us have not. Have I? Am I a good fighter? Am I a good teacher?

    And because this is a written forum...brother...you aint never going to know. Here, we can only offer opinion and talk about experience - and who knows how much either or both are bull, troll, or something I could slap ya with on the backside of your skull..know what I MEAN?

    Unless you (in terms of YOU who is reading this) and I have issue to fight..not spar..either one of us will ever know. Most of us couldn't care less, I'd imagine. Besides having a need or want to read and respond to any given thread. My gung fu isn't about YOU. It is about me, my teacher, then my style. If I am doing what my teacher's teacher taught him and so on, then I never, ever will worry whether YOU think I can fight or not. Yeah..I like this response. I like it a lot.

    nospam.

  13. #13
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    Ten Tigers
    Makes sense. Maybe there should be two polls, the second being "Why do you continue to train in a martial art?". The difference in the two may be interesting.

    Ego_Extrodinaire
    Maybe I'm a bit slow, but, what is your conclusion.

    Fu-Pow
    But then why do we, so frequently, get chastised for being the opposite? Or why then, are there not people queing up to ask self defense related questions from the "kick ass southern practitioners"? Could it be the few "kick ass" practitioners have been drowned out in a sea of posers, and the multitude of instructors willing to take their money for teaching what is really aerobics.

    nospam
    But why is there a need for that distinction? Is it a recognition that most of what makes up modern martial arts is not related to self defense. If a martial arts style is for self defense then wouldn't most posts be about that? Why would we be content to defer to those 'specializing' in self defense. Surely we should be those people.

    jon
    Like Ten Tigers, you make sense. But isn't the beauty of the internet the ability to gather opinions and be able to decide what is useless and what is functional? If I disagree with my instructor, isn't it a good thing that I can get other opinions? Ones that may help me better understand why I might be right/wrong. My mother and grandmother are/were both teachers and I give extra math lessons, so I understand the value of having more than one explanation of a problem, and that a different angle may be the difference between being clueless and 'getting it'.

    I hope people don't think they can learn to defend themselves from a forum, but it should be used to further stimulate a mind that has been educated at the dojo/kwoon. If kung fu training was self defense oriented, wouldn't most posts reflect that. I certainly believe that the type of questions we ask stem from wanting to know more of what we've been taught.

    Some people don't know the right questions to ask or how to ask them, either through inability or lack of experience, surely this forum provides a way for beginners to learn the right way of asking questions. The beginner should go back to the dojo/kwoon with all sorts of questions for his instructor. "Are ducking and slipping the same thing, if not, what's the difference", "these guys reckons i'll hurt my hand if I punch with a fist, is it true", "what do you think of mma", "why do we learn this","i wasn't too sure what you meant, is this it"
    Michael

    I like to think of it as the positive aspect of negative thinking.

    I know Karate, Kung Fu, and 47 other dangerous words

  14. #14
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    Conclusion

    Excession:

    My conclusion, if the voting sample so far reflects what the international community of southern kung fu thinks, that I conclude that the main motivation is NOT self defence.

    Right now 14.29% of the people voted for self defence. If out of this, we exclude the posers who pretend to teach self defence, which is about 90% of this percentage, we have 1.43% of these people who are actually learing true self defence.

    And out of these, if we take nospam's comments onboard and exclude those that are NOT natural fighters (I'll be generous here and say it is 50/50 split), we have 0.71% who can adequately defend themselves.

    This percentage is hardly statistically significant, which confirms what I have known about southern kung fu players all along - they just simply can't fight!

    We can't increase natural talent, but we can increase our persuit for self defence to raise the total percentage of those who study kung fu to become able to defend themselves. That means you!

  15. #15
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    Excession

    First and foremost that was a darn good post. I have to say i agree with basicaly everything you have just stated.

    I think however that sadly discussions relating to actual application are nearly always doomed to fail. People will frequently argue and bicker over interpretation and generaly seem more interested in proving others wrong than actualy providing factual information.

    I personaly look for people posting regarding mindset and power generation in posts. As you say much can be learned from these exchanges. However there are also many contradictions. This is where it gets truely complicated.

    Still im sad to say i agree with you totaly but i honestly cant really think of a reasonable solution either.
    Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
    ------------------------------------
    Shaped dragon and looking monkey, sitting tiger and turning eagle.


    "I wonder how they would do against jon's no-tension fu. I bet they'd do REALLY WELL."
    - Huang Kai Vun

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