New Fut Sao Buddha Hand Wing Chun Kuen Web Site By James Cama Sifu

**Sam** · 11-16-2002, 05:57 PM

Sandman and Jim Roselando,
Sounds good to me as long as we're men of our word.

**yuanfen** · 11-16-2002, 06:13 PM

Sam, Jim, Sandman- that's great.
Joy

**Hendrik** · 11-17-2002, 08:55 AM

Just very suprise to see DM Hsu Yun's as the ancestor of this system.

There is a book about the life of Hsu Yun.
Who is Hsu Yun.... Will this sage of Chan who dedicated his life equally to all living beings teaches martial art?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Will mother Teresa teaches martial art?

**Sam** · 11-17-2002, 10:01 AM

Hello Hendric, Did Kung Fu not come out of Shaolin. Were the priests not religous Buddhists. It has been documented that the venerable Hsu Yun taught chinese yoga breathing and exercises. The famous story of the master tossing or lifting the boulder proves his internal mastery.

**Hendrik** · 11-18-2002, 11:15 PM

Hello Hendric, Did Kung Fu not come out of Shaolin

Hi, Sam
Some kungfu do and some don't.

Were the priests not religous Buddhists.

How can buddhist monks not religous Buddhists?

Are you imply that Hsu Yun who is a patraich of Chan not a religous Buddhist?

It has been documented that the venerable Hsu Yun taught chinese yoga breathing and exercises.

it will be interested to know about this documentation.

I have never aware of HSu Yun taught Chinese Yoga breathing.
Even I have met a few of Hsu Yun's direct students and read thier books. furthermore,
Hai Deng of Shao Lin who at one time work under Hsu Yun at one temple also didn't mention Hsu Yun teaching Chinese Yoga breathing exercises.

Beside where and When did Hsu Yun learn Wing Chun?

If I am not wrong.
Hsu Yun wrote an article about "skin bag" meaning one should let go of the "skin bag" or body, to convert people who attached to cultivate thier body. So, Hsu Yun's teaching is about let go of the body.

The famous story of the master tossing or lifting the boulder proves his internal mastery.

Hsu Yun was known in Buddhism as the reincanation of the Eight Ground Boddhisatva.
Hsu Yun's teaching is core with Surangama sutra.
Surangama sutra teaches to have not a single thought of killing or hurting in order cleansing oneself before entering into samadhi. Otherwise, one will get into the demon state.
So, for Hsu Yun to teach martial art is a no no.

Sam, I might be wrong you might be right. But, we need the document.

As for what kind of Buddhist monk Hsu Yun was?
He was asked to escort the last empress of Qing and emperor Kuang Xui while the royal family fleet when the western's attack beijing.
He meditated and enter into samadhi for days in Thailand and was recognized by the Thai King. Those were all recorded in history.
How was this Hsu Yun related to your's Hsu Yun? No mean to against you but just for discussion.

**reneritchie** · 11-19-2002, 07:22 AM

Hey Sam,

I believe Xu Yun is Hendrik's sigung, so he may have a little insight in the matter. Personally, the story of Xu Yun teaching WCK sounds more like a classic fable (a la Ng Mui) than history.

In addition, since there seems to be so many Fut Sao histories (to sum, the first I encountered, I think from a student of Cama sifu if memory serves, was that it was the Leung family system from Leung Bik. Then Jim presented Barbalace sifu's version saying it came from Xu Yun. Third, Ken Fish was told it came from Fung Siu-Ching, and insisted he'd confirmed this with Leung sifu's writings in China. Then, Barbalace sifu was informed it wasn't from Xu Yun but from Leung sifu's uncle, Leung Sang-Chang. Now another student of Cama sifu is promoting the Xu Yun story. Last, another student insisted it was really from Chan Wah-Shun), it's probably best to treat them all with some academic detachment until more corroboration is possible.

Hopefully Leung sifu will one day get all his students together in one room and at the same time get them all on the same page, as one family.

RR

**scuba steve** · 11-19-2002, 08:33 PM

Hummm....

Perhaps this is a long lost sister branch of Hung Fa Yi?

[Switch to Yoda voice] "There is another."

Has the Shaolin story in it.
Has a buddhist monk story in it.
Has Buddhism tied into it.

Fighting Monks? Isn't that an oxymoron?
Especially Fighting Buddhist Monks?

[queue up Sandler's Green Berets]

Silver beads around their necks..
They are some of Chan's best.
100 buddhists will try today,
But only 3 get the Chan Buddhist Shaolin Fighting Monks Beret!

Where is Zopa when we need him?

Perhaps you all have a little "speck of dust" within you.

Hung Fa Yi meets Buddha Hand
[queue up Thomas Dolby song]
"She blinded me with SCIENCE!"

Yeah it's rambling, but I breathlessly await the latest all caps missive from Tap Man and the R**** W******* posse.

**Sam** · 11-30-2002, 09:56 AM

Check out this old article one of the first to come out on mainland Wing Chun. http://www.geocities.com/wingchunbud.../ARTICLE2.html

**t_niehoff** · 12-01-2002, 06:33 AM

Hi Sam,

Sam wrote:

Check out this old article one of the first to come out on mainland Wing Chun.
----------------

Is Fut Sao WCK practiced in "mainland" China? What is your criterion for something to be "mainland" WCK?

Thanks,

Terence

**Sam** · 12-01-2002, 08:13 AM

The lineage is not Yip Man. It is Shaolin which spread through Red Boat, Royal family, and village. Leung Chi Man (Henry Leung) learned the art from Ghao Jhi Fut Sao in Canton. The differences are in the Hei Gung, Siu Baat Gwa footworks, and tork powers.

**t_niehoff** · 12-01-2002, 08:34 AM

Hi Sam,

I asked: What is your criterion for something to be "mainland" WCK?

And you responded: The lineage is not Yip Man. It is Shaolin which spread through Red Boat, Royal family, and village. Leung Chi Man (Henry Leung) learned the art from Ghao Jhi Fut Sao in Canton. The differences are in the Hei Gung, Siu Baat Gwa footworks, and tork powers. (Sam)
------------------

Are you suggesting anything not descending from "Yip Man" is "mainland" WCK? The Yip Man lineage too claims its origins in Shaolin (Ng Mui), spreading through the Red Boat (Wong Wah Bo), and village (Foshan) with Yip Man learning his WCK on the "mainland". I'm not trying to be a bother, just trying to understand the significance of your use of "mainland." (And thanks for giving me those factors that you believe to distinguish the lineages.).

Terence

**Sam** · 12-01-2002, 10:48 AM

My Sifu has told me that it is most likely that Yip Man did learn mainland Wing Chun the question is did he modify or hold back the original style? Some of his mainland students claim that Yip Man taught them a longer dummy form(300 movements), footworks and Pheonix eye fist which is part of Fut Sao Wing Chun and other mainland styles. The mainland styles as I was told are Buddhist, Royal Family, Village, Red Boat, and ancient which has been lost.

**t_niehoff** · 12-01-2002, 11:40 AM

Sam wrote:

My Sifu has told me that it is most likely that Yip Man did learn mainland Wing Chun (Sam)

Again, I'm confused by your use of the term "mainland WCK". For you is "mainland WCK" one of these "styles" that your sifu told you about? TN
-------------------

the question is did he modify or hold back the original style? (Sam)

"Original style"? TN
-------------------

Some of his mainland students claim that Yip Man taught them a longer dummy form(300 movements), footworks and Pheonix eye fist which is part of Fut Sao Wing Chun and other mainland styles. (Sam)

I'm sorry but I miss the significance of your point. From my perspective, there is curriculum (how we learn and train) and there is the art (our method or approach to fighting). Curriculum and texts (how things are taught) can, and will by necessity, change. The "styles" or lineages are, as I see it, just different persons' attempts to teach the same method. And fwiw, I've seen several Yip Man students from Hong Kong that use the "Pheonix eye fist". TN
-------------------

The mainland styles as I was told are Buddhist, Royal Family, Village, Red Boat, and ancient which has been lost. (Sam)

Am I correct that this information comes from Cama sifu through Henry Leung? I can accept this as your lineage's oral tradition. However, if you are suggesting that it is literally true then can you provide any information that substantiates the claim? TN

Thanks,

Terence

**yuanfen** · 12-01-2002, 11:45 AM

Sam said:The differences are in the Hei Gung, Siu Baat Gwa footworks, and tork powers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sam- can you elaborate some more. We have the tyranny
of language specially in net conversations.
I do wing chun ina lineage descended from Ip Man and I dont know much about what you do. WITHOUT using the same words-
hei gung, footwork including the dummy work and torquing are
very much part of what I do. Could you make the differences a little sharper? Thanks
Yuanfen/joy chaudhuri

**S.Teebas** · 12-01-2002, 01:55 PM

Some interesting questions yuanfen, i look forward to the answers!!

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