The Chinese Were Not Simpletons!!!!!!!

[Geezer]

Grendel Wrote>

LOL! Not mathematically! The Chinese, advanced in so many ways, rounded Pi to three back then. Obviously, this would screw up all the HFY formulas.

I think you forgot about the Suan Pan, just in case here's a couple of links to refresh your memory

http://qi-journal.com/culture.asp?-t...earchID=Abacus

http://www.hh.schule.de/metalltechni...hina/china.htm

I think this might help you out for starters


(You Know They Called Him Ebeneezer Good)

[Rolling_Hand]

Geezer,

I am personally thankful that we live together in a large WCK family even we do not drink at the same fountain of faith. The world we experience together is one world, your world, his/her world, and my world, and the problems we share are common human problems. So we can talk to together, try to understand each other, and help each other.

Rolling_Hand

[reneritchie]

Hey Sheldon,

The Chinese definately weren't simpletons. When we eat pasta, watch fireworks, play Chinese chess, enjoy Peking Opera, experience Wushu, read Sanguo or the Daodejing or the works of Qi Jigui (sp?), behold the Great Wall or the Forbidden City, or do any of a hundred different things we probably all take for granted everyday, we touch on the richness of 5000 years of Chinese culture and attainment.

They did things in their own way, within their own culture, and within the framework of their own developments. Maybe not exactly what the Romans did, or the Egyptians, or the Hebrews, or even more recent cultures like modern Europe and North America, but they did (and presumably will continue to do), some darn impressive stuff.

[Geezer]

Rene Wrote>

The Chinese definately weren't simpletons. When we eat pasta, watch fireworks, play Chinese chess, enjoy Peking Opera, experience Wushu, read Sanguo or the Daodejing or the works of Qi Jigui (sp?), behold the Great Wall or the Forbidden City, or do any of a hundred different things we probably all take for granted everyday, we touch on the richness of 5000 years of Chinese culture and attainment.

Amen To That

(The Shamen)

[Merryprankster]

*&%@*$!&%!@$*!

Pasta was NOT a Chinese innovation!!! Contrary to myth, Polo or other traders did not bring the noodle back to Europe. Pasta had been used for quite awhile in the mediterranean region, prior to these excursions.

Like many other good things, the cultures in question discovered how to make Pasta independently of each other.

We can, however, thank the Chinese for Hot Bean Paste.

This has been a public service announcement from the resident KFO foodie.

[reneritchie]

Sure. Next you'll tell me fajitas aren't just rip-offs of Pekin Duck, and Quesadeyas owe no homage to spring rolls!

[Merryprankster]

That's it. I challenge Iron Chef Sakai!!!

Ooops... I mean, Uh... Never mind.

[yuanfen]

Rene- much but not all Mexican foods are built on
indigenous "Indian" tribal foundations- maize, chile, tamales,oregano, napolitos, tomatoes, etc--- see Weathorford's landmark book "Indian Givers" and its sequel to see what went from the New World to the old. No kung pau chicken without old world peanuts, no red hot curries without new world peppers,
no tomatoes in Italian cooking, bo chips in fish and chips. no "Italian" squash. no chocolate Belgian, Swiss, Dutch or otherwise....
but of course there is a swap when civilizations meet....

hamburguesas....would you like some queso on that?

And some Spanish things--- saffron etc...which the Spaniards
got via the Moors...and stuff from the wandering gypsies from India.spoces and guitar music to accompany the hamburguesas
con queso..ole!.
PS But the pulce and tequila are indigenous.

[old jong]

But the true origin of poutine is not a mystery!

here!

[yuanfen]

Old Jong-I missed out! Or did I?

[reneritchie]

S: Yakudo San!

Y: Go!

S: Yes, MP seems to be preparing traditional beanpaste... I asked Sakai about it, and he said 'Of course, but I'm not worri--' Wait a minute! MP just single legged Iron Chef Nakai!!

Y: Interesting.

Doc: I would have gone with the heel pick...

Yuanfen - And what would the world have done with Ketchup!!!

[dfl]

Grendel is quite wrong about the Chinese' knowledge of pi. It is well known that Chinese mathematicians have already determined that pi is between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927 over 2000 years ago.
They didn't realize that mass increases with velocity, though, until the time of Einstein, Lorentz and Poincare. But then, neither did Newton.

[yuanfen]

Firstly, I dont know the history of pi. Grendel did not question
the greatness of Chinese civilzation, its early science nor use anything like "simpleton" in his remark despite geezer and our troll from Transamerica in residence. As happens threads take of on their own.

Cross cultural history is a very difficult thing because it is loaded with cultural bisases, over specialzation and undergeneralization skills and personal opinions.

Western mathematics really took off with "fluxions", newton and calculus- but didnt even have the concept of zero in its early days
-in greek or roman numerals. Without zero number theory has a big hole in it. The concept of zero (sunya) was part of Indian philosophy and number theory and algebra-passed on to the west via so called Arab mathematics-arabic numerals are really
Indian in origin.(The arabs called them Hindu numbers at one time)
The Chinese abacus is a marvelous invention and tool.In the right hands it can still calculate faster than some machines. But as far as number theory I dont know when the pi became known in China. In the 5th and 6th centuries there was a whole colony of Indian mathematicians and astronomers in Loyang invited by the Chinese to work on the calcuations on eclipses. Needhams exceptional multi volume magnum opus "Science and Civilization in China" should be a superb source for this discussion, if folks are serious. But it will be going far afield. Needham by the way acknowledges what i mentioned about the
Indian astronomers and mathematicians and the calculation of eclipses.
But whatever the status of comparative mathematics and the history of pi, it is absurd to imagine that folks at northern or southern shaolin used contemporary mathematical and physics theories of space and time to fashion exclusively a
single secretly developed and kept style of kung fu. Preposterous.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Firstly, I dont know the history of pi. Grendel did not question
the greatness of Chinese civilzation, its early science nor use anything like "simpleton" in his remark despite geezer and our troll from Transamerica in residence. As happens threads take of on their own.

Unlike the thread from which this statement comes, I did not issue forth on the subject without a basis that I can document. I refer those who doubt my assertion to "The Joy of Pi" by David Blatner, an eminently enjoyable excursion into the history of Pi from its various discoveries to the present. China's path to Pi are recorded therein. Historical China and modern China are to be well regarded in their contributions to mathematics.

Obviously this thread is an attempt to take my comment out of context and miscontrue its nature. Not very advanced trolling, I'd say.

Regards,

[Chango]

Grendel,
Maybe you should look at your own words when you post your signature with my name in it.

<snip>Obviously this thread is an attempt to take my comment out of context and miscontrue its nature. Not very advanced trolling, I'd say.

once again I'm asking you to remove my name and my words (taken out of context I might add) out of your signature. It serves no purpose other then to take a cheap shot at me.


Chango