How do YOU know??

[wushu chik]

I am just curious. How do YOU know that your stuff is 100% right? Seriously, how do you know? Were you back there way back when...in the days of YSM and KYC? Do you know for sure that you're learning EXACTLY whats supposed to be taught? How do you know that your stuff is the "Authority Style" to something?

~Wen~

[GeneChing]

Hell, I'd be happy with 50% right. But I've learned to fill in the gaps over time - often I'll learn a new technique that maps on to something I learned in BSL, which is very reaffirming. Did my Sifu know that technique? Probably. It doesn't really matter if he did or he didn't. What matters is that I eventually figured it out.

Martial arts is not static. If you're waiting for someone to teach you the true kungfu, then I have a belt I'd like to sell you. http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/belt.html . Your teacher can show you the forms, but you have to give them meaning. It's your research.

So my stuff ain't near 100% right. Not yet at least.

[NorthernShaolin]

If the concepts and essence of the style is taught then that is all that matters. The ability of being able to use the concepts and principles in applications and the ability "to see the next level of applications" is what really counts. No sifu can teach a student this. The sifu can only show the method but the student is the one who makes the style become alive and bring it to its fullest potential.

"Believe in the style that you know and it will never let you down", my sifu once told me.

[Mizong_Kid]

i always think about that........i guess its what you know about your own sifu......and how much attention he pays towards you....

though i guess its very much upto the student to practice and think about what he/she is doing.......and then ask away.....

i hate learning something wrong....because its harder to learn it the right way afterwards

[HuangKaiVun]

There is but ONE authority in traditional chinese kung fu:

TOUCH HANDS.

If the technique works against a skilled resisting opponent, it works and nobody can say otherwise.

Those who want to argue - let them face the technique in combat.

[GeneChing]

I recently learned a different way of doing a particular move in BSL tantui from my Emei studies. I could use the old BSL method - it was servicable, but the 'new' method makes much more sense. In essence, I didn't understand it completely before. I could use the previous technique in sparring, in fact, it was one of my favorites, a nice little combo. But the new method is far more effective and although I haven't had the chance to use it sparring, I'm confident that I'll be able to with ease if the opportunity presents itself.

So in this situation, touching hands really didn't show me the depth of the technique, not at all. Nor did I get 100% of the technique when I initially learned it (I've been practicing tantui for a LONG time now, longer than I'd like to admit!) But now, I have a much deeper understanding of it, or at least one move from it. I could easily project this process to any of the moves in any of the styles I study. It's what keeps me doing them actually, otherwisee, it would be hella boring.

[wushu chik]

Good Posts Guys....
Lets broaden this question a bit.

When it comes to the previous question......who am I (or anyone else) to tell you that what you're doing isn't "correct" but what I am IS? Do you think that this makes sense, especially with the previous answers? Do you think ANYONE is really learning 100% of what was originally taught??

~Wen~

[NorthernShaolin]

Well, it all depends on who is doing the correction and who is on the receiving end.

Who has the most experience in CMA weights alot here but there is a method of check and balance in determining if the "correct' way is the real way:

1. does the techniques or 'correct' way really flow with the over all flavor of the set or style?
2. is the object being 'corrected' a method of doing or is it a basic concept that is constant in the style?
3. is the 'correct' way in question in line with the rest of the principles and concepts of the style or is it way off base?
4. hold judgement unitl application is shown or determined at some point in the future.
5. does the 'correct' way follow the general flow and principals, theories and concepts of the style?
6 ETC., there's more but I can't think of them now but you get the idea.

CMA is an art and is made for every body type. Sets and techniques are expression of the art and how one uses certain techniques is a manner of preference and interputation. A good sifu understands this and will teach accordingly. A sifu who does not reconize this simple principle will disregard certain moves and calim that it is not useful or practical, too classical, or this never worked for me and will not pass these to his student.

Also as part of human nature, some sifus will tend towards certain movements because of his body type and will stress these moves that fit his body type. While other sifus who have that understanding mention above, will focus on teaching everthing as evenly as possible. Big responsability for teaching a style correctly.

Again CMA is an art and is not fixed to any one correct way. As long as the essence and the core of the style in question is passed onto the next generation is the most important focus.

Bottom line is "you have to trust your sifu".

My motto is "if it looks good, learn it. If it looks ugly, forget it".

[GeneChing]

WC originally asked if we knew if it was correct - that's a little different than knowing if something's incorrect.

I agree with NS on the whole, but I've never been big on the "trust your sifu" thing. Too cultish for me. I'm always the one to point out when the emperor has no clothes, and there seem to be more and more naked emperors walking around nowadays. I know, I know, I 'm a bad Confucian, but Confucius himself said something to the effect that all bets are off if the superior is evil. There are a lot of evil sifus - always have been, always will be.

On the flip side, I also have a slight contention with the "looks good" rule. I'd agree with this 90% of the time, but there is the occasional style that doesn't look good to me and I still respect it. Southern Praying Mantis and Wing Chun don't strike me as particularly beautiful externally, but I totally respect what they are doing.

[Mizong_Kid]

well i guess the more experienced you are...and if you are actually good at kung fu.......then you can question how things are done and maybe give an opposing view to those who see fit to correct you.........


but if your sifu is the teacher.......surely he will know all the answers

[r.(shaolin)]

Gene wrote:
I recently learned a

[buddhapalm]

WuShu Chick said :

"How do YOU know that your stuff is 100% right? Seriously, how do you know? Were you back there way back when...in the days of YSM and KYC?"

I will say that my stuff is right when it achieves the purpose intended.

Is the intention to destroy a room full of killers,

is the intention to perform a beautiful moving art form,

is the intention to become lost in ones art ?

Who can say what is real or what is right. For each person they have a unique purpose, whatever fulfills that purpose is right.

In my case I wish to learn the movements in a way that will dispatch a room full of killers. So every movement must be tuned to that purpose. If my Sifu changed a technique to make it more practical I will keep it, if I discover from my Kung Fu Uncle that a changed movement is less effective than the older movement, then I will practice the older version.

As my Sifu said, in China they did not "often" face 300 lb boxers, so he has to do what he has to do. What worked in 1940's Toisan did not work in 1960's San Francisco. Gangs of racist thugs encircling you at 3am. Circumstances change, opponents change, techniques change. Good steel never melts.

If one day we become better than our Sifu's by being smart and resourcefull then he/she should be proud. "A good student always has a good Sifu" is the saying. If you are good or become better, we can only bring honor and pride to our Sifu. If a Sifu truly cares for the student he will want to be surpassed. Perhaps even at the expense of a technique or two.

My Sifu once said, a student should become better than the teacher, I asked how can that be, he said a student can learn everything from the teacher, but can have other teachers and experiences which will make the student eventually better than the teacher.

Styles are vehicles of knowledge, martial knowledge. If we get hung up on what model car we each drive, then we are just comparing our mercedes benz's. So long as the movement, application, style and lineage work for you then it should be right.

Does your learning feel right for you ?

That is the question.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[GeneChing]

mk: Your Sifu is human too, and still learning. That's the great thing about kungfu - you never get to the end. There's always more to learn. I think it's a mistake to believe that he (or she) knows all the answers. That doesn't mean you shouldn't heed them, just that you should find your own answers too.

r.(s): Line four of tantui. I've been playing it as a hand tech. Now I play it as a shuai move. Works better and explains the backward stepping. It was the eye direction that had me confused. That's always tricky with shuai & na.

bp: I think its' right when it attract the most chicks. Darn, I must be doing something wrong. Actually, I think enjoyment is the key. People always talk about fighting skills and such, which I do think is important, of course, but realistically, the majority of practictioner will never get in a real fight, never get to use it for real. So just enjoy it.

gh: On effectiveness, well, there's no subsitute for luck. I once lost a fencing bout to a younger kid (this was when I was a junior) who didn't know anything. I rushed him so hard he fell over. On his way down, he lost his sword. Before I could land my touch, his sword flew up and scored on my arm. True story. To quote Yogi Berra, I'd rather be lucky than skillful.

[guohuen]

Ha ha ha! How true.
I was teaching my younger sister to fish, showing her the finer points of casting and retrieving a spinner. Meanwhile she was bored and was nonchallantly jigging a spinner of the end of the dock. She hooked and landed the biggest bass I had ever seen up to that point.

[GeneChing]

Unfortunately I've used most of mine up in this field. Fishing too for that matter. And gambling. Time to move on to something like needlepoint...