Kuen Kuit

[reneritchie]

Yuanfen once again drops the bonsai on correctness. You may also want to check out http://www.wingchunkuen.com/archives/idioms/index.shtml for a few I've begun posting.

RR

[sing fu]

Mr. Ritchie,

I really like your presentation with both the original Chinese, as well as the translation. I don't suppose there might be any Chinese sources for Mr. Misner's wonderful pages on kuen kuit too?

[yuanfen]

sing fu- there are. Mr. Misner or his sifu Rob Lopez might be able to help. Unfortunately, my tech knowledge is so poor that despite my prayers and flowers my pc image repro machine just stares at me. And one of my students who is good at these things wisely is not on net lists. Most of my students, brothers and sisters arent.

[sing fu]

Yuanfen,

Thank you! If these are something Mr. Misner might be able to share with someone who isn't a student, I would be grateful - I'll try writing to him.

I also have some poem from a departed relatives notes, including one which says 'the fist is the bullet, chi is the gun powder' - but not sure where these come from. It's a shame I didn't learn more while he was still around!

Are these poems recited during training, or taught aurally privately, or passed on in a book? As I mentioned, the only ones I have personally seen are a number in notes.

Any directions would be very much appreciated

[Grendel]

Unfortunately, English translations don't accurately convey the utility and
pithiness of Cantonese---there just aren't good counterparts in each
language.

The Cantonese is metaphorical; the English simply doesn't correspond to the
mindset of the Chinese.

Kuen Kuit for martial arts are supposed to be short and sweet idioms that
when the Sifu yells at the student, it brings the student immediately to
that mental state, in addition to the physical attributes of how to execute
that technique.

The following are some Kuen Kuit compiled by one of my Chinese sidai.
Most of the translations are accurate in meaning, despite the poetic
elegance of "short and sweet" being lost in the translation. He has matched
a few of the popular ones with their more popular American counterparts for
your amusement.

Loi Lao Hoi Sung, Lut Sao Jik Jong
Direct translation: Stay with what comes. Send off what goes. Detain what
arrives. Escort what is removed.

"When the opponent expands, I contract;
When the opponent contracts, I expand;
When there is an opportunity, I do not hit;
It hits all by itself." --- Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon.

Lien Siu Dai Da
Direct translation: Join cancelling to bring hitting.

"Jeet Kune Do. The way of the Intercepting Fist." --- Bruce Lee

Dar Sou Jik Siu Sao
Direction translation: The hand that hits also blocks

"A good offense is your best defense." --- Vince Lombardi

Hui Yu Min, Chuk Yu Tik
Direction translation: Feels like Cotton. Hits like Iron

"Float like a butterfly. Sting like a Bee" --- Ali

Chew Min Joi Ying
Direction Translation: Search and Follow the center, Chase the shadow

"In Ya Face, Baby !!!"

[reneritchie]

Grendel - Excellent points and good Kuen Kuit. On the last one, is it the "yieng" (ying) as in shadow/impression or the "ying" (xing) as in shape/form? I think I've seen the later, giving "chase shape (posture)"

RR

[Grendel]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Grendel - Excellent points and good Kuen Kuit. On the last one, is it the "yieng" (ying) as in shadow/impression or the "ying" (xing) as in shape/form? I think I've seen the later, giving "chase shape (posture)"

RR

Chieu Mien Jui Ying
Another translation, as I understand it, would be "Search and follow the center. Face the opponent squarely."

Regards,

[reneritchie]

I've heard "Center Facing Posture Chasing" I've seen the character Dui (Face) used as well.

RR

[bglenn]

When I first posted this thread it inspired me to go back and look at the book "Ving Tsun Kuen Kuit"by Moy Yat That the VTMUSEUM put together a couple of years ago.It was a copy of the original .As I went through it I realized that I was missing some pages. If anyone has a copy could you please help me fill in the missing pages. I am missing pages 1-3,7-8,51-52,57-58,any help would be appreciated. Thank You My e-mail address is BGLENN73@comcast.net

[Rob Wolf]

Remain disciplined –Conduct yourself ethically as a martial artist
Practice courtesy and righteousness – serve society and respect your elders
Love your fellow students – be united and avoid conflicts
Limit your desires and pursuit of bodily pleasures – preserve the proper spirit
Train diligently– maintain your skills
Learn to develop spiritual tranquillity – abstain from arguments and fights
Participate in society – be moderate and gentle in your manners
Help the weak and the very young – use martial skill for the good of humanity
Pass on the tradition – preserve this Chinese art and Rules of Conduct


Just an idea!.....www.sillumwingchun.com Rob

[black and blue]

Limit your desires and pursuit of bodily pleasures

What fool came up with this kuen kuit?

[quiet man]

What fool came up with this kuen kuit?

ROTFL

[Grendel]

I brought this up in another thread, and the list being slow, decided to add it in here. The Cantonese expression is Mm Yan Chi Dai, which translates to Misleading other people's children.

The idiom is a reference to those teachers who claim an expertise in an art that they do not have and waste the time and treasure of others. Applies to a number of supposed Wing Chun teachers, for example.

As Yuanfen said, "an Ip Man doesn't come along every day."

[Mckind13]

Hi everyone

Fat from turkey? I am. I look like that cat on the internet. Only human, and not as hairy :P

I was recently introduced to the idea that some Kuen Kuit have a very exact meaning that translate to exact actions when dealing with an opponent, rather then being general principles or guidelines to follow.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Also, as I lay in my turkey induced stupor last night I read through some of the Kuen Kuit and it seems to me that many of them allude to the same things.

Use soft to overcome hard. Slow to overcome Fast. Use stillness to overcome movement.

Use defense to bring offense or the defending hand becomes the attacking hand.

And many more.

It seems to me to me that these are really talking about the Ying/Yang idea of using an opposing energy to overcome your opponent.

Additionally it seems that other groups of Kuen Kuit discuss one overriding principle.

Again any thought J

Looking forward to your replies.

David McKinnon

[reneritchie]

Many of these Kuen Kuits can be applied both way, thus: use hard to overcome soft, use fast to hit slow, etc. I think this goes along with the Yin Yang idea, though the meaning can be somewhat subtle to figure out.

RR