Secret society hands signs

[Diu Sao]

I have a question for the historians. I have read that during the revolutionary times in china secret societies used hand signs to identify each other. I have aslo heard that some kung-fu schools had hand signs as well. Is this true? If so, could anyone fill me in or point me to where I might learn more? Thanks in advance.


Diu Sao

[desertwingchun2]

Diu Soa - there is a book I have read that is based on work done by police forces in China looking into secret societies. I will try to find it again and get the correct title for you.
-David

[Ao Qin]

Hi Diu Sao (what does "diu sao" mean, anyhow), I am not a "historian" per se...however;

The best book on the subject, as far as I know, was written in 1925, by J.S.M Ward and W.G. Stirling - "The Hung Society, or the Society of Heaven and Earth". The Baskerville Press, Limited. London, U.K. Go to your local bookshop - you can probably find a copy, for under $100.00 (CDN)

I believe most of the bows (and many movements) within southern Siu Lum arts contain "encoded" messages - the earlier, a system to teach a moral code or standard, the later, as you put it, to identify each other (signs of "recognition").

It is only the most ignorant of practioners who believe every move must have a secret "fighting application" - rubbish and poppy****.

However, the "secret" symbolism of the physical gestures is and only ever will be significant to people who take the time and effort to apply these moral and ethical principles to their own lives.

[Serpent]

Diu sao = hanging hand?

[joedoe]

Diu Sao = fuck hand = wanker

[tnwingtsun]

"It is only the most ignorant of practioners who believe every move must have a secret "fighting application" - rubbish and poppy****."

Will you please expand on "every move" a little more foe da

The Spirit of Ignunce?

[Diu Sao]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I appreciate it. Diu (or Diel)=empty, in my sifu's dialect. Sao=hand.



Diu Sao

[JAZA]

How is your salute n your style?
open hand , Charp Choi in mine.

[Sho]

There's a symbolic hand sign in Chan Family Choy Lee Fut, where Shaolin overcomes the government of China.

[TenTigers]

the standard Siu-Lum bow-right fist and left palm, forms the shape of the sun and moon, which when written in Chinese is Ming-thus, the handsign was a way of indentifying Ming loyalists. The single finger block hand sign seen in Hung-Ga stands for-"if the Han (the subjugated Chinese) would raise but one finger, we could restore the Ming Dynasty to power again" The entire salutation has symbolism as well. One interpetation I have heard goes as follows'; "Our hearts are for the Ming Dynasty-Warrior and Monk fight side by side, back to back, we bring our country together." and the 'gangstas' think they invented 'flashing signs'-totally cluless.

[Geezer]

TenTigers wrote>

The entire salutation has symbolism as well. One interpetation I have heard goes as follows'; "Our hearts are for the Ming Dynasty-Warrior and Monk fight side by side, back to back, we bring our country together."

Is there anything you know of written on this or is this just something passsed down over time by word of mouth.???

I find it interesting that it mentions "Warrior and Monk fight side by side".

Sheldon

[reneritchie]

Get Dian Murray's 'Tian Di Hui', or Ownby's 'Secret Societies Reconsidered', both will give the basics of symbolism. Of course, anyone, at any time, could make up anything they wanted, and there were all different types of 'secret societies' from rebels to bandits to mutual aid to self-protection, etc. so any mileage can vary and any odometer can be set to anything

FWIW, though, I haven't yet seen much martial art symbolism that actually seems to match 'secret society' symbolism. Mostly its been stuff that looks like it was later made to fit some legendary sterotypes, or common Feng Shui and other stuff portrayed as 'secret society'.

(Of course, when people start reading Murray, Ownby, Qin, et al we might see all sorts of new, "authentic" stuff pop up. LOL!

RR

[Gold Horse Dragon]

In Hung styles eg. Hung Gar, the one finger kiu sao (bridge hand/arm) means 'one strong finger controls all of China' which can means 'all ming loyalists united together will be strong and overcome the ching'. As with any translation, you can have three slightly different translations from three different translators (I am not a translator...just conveying what I have learned), but the above conveys a close meaning of the Hung Gar hand sign.

GHD

[JAZA]

I think it was used to hit the eyes.