Threatening emails

[Patrick Gordon]

Last week I responded to a chat line post and have since received three threatening emails from one of own list members, Tap Man. In the email, I was continually insulted and was told if I did not retract my message on the chat site I would be dealt with

Tap Man (Mike Tappscott) post read “the rift which now exists between Randy and the Fong group is actually a result of Randy's 1989 visit to Sifu Ho Kam Ming in Hong Kong. Prior to that visit, Randy was an instructor in good standing with Augustine Fong. But what transpired in that visit, and the subsequent conversations between Fong, his wife and Randy forever changed that relationship. To this day, Randy regrets ever having gone to visit Sifu Ho”

My post responded with “I would like to know what happened during his visit to Sigung Ho's? All I've heard was that after Randy left, Sigung Ho phoned Sifu Fong to complain about what sifu Fong was teaching his students because Randy stated to be a student under him (Fong). Sigung Ho thought his skills were horrible and wondered what the hell Fong was teaching. I am sure there is more to the story”

In Randy Williams’s own book he wrote: Sifu Ho invited the author (Randy) to demonstrate the three hands forms and wooden dummy form. The author’s forms was then carefully scrutinized and meticulously criticized and corrected by sifu Ho.

From all the crap you read on the web today, I really don’t feel what I wrote was very terrible or that far from the truth. I cannot be entirely sure since I was not there or did not hear the telephone call, so perhaps I shouldn’t speak for others. This is just what I heard. If you feel I did write something I shouldn’t have or am wrong, please let me know. How Tap Man responded to the post was very unnecessary. Whether he is working on his own or is a spokesperson for Mr. Williams, it does not make me feel any better towards their group whether I have ill feelings or not. There were other people who wrote negative things regarding Mr. Williams; did you also receive threatening letters?

These letters I do not take seriously and find them very childish. At the same time, I do not appreciate receiving these types of emails and feel that Tap Man should be banned from Kung Fu Online, for using such behavior. I am a very easy going guy and I also very understanding. Had I received an email stating that time had pasted and Mr. Williams and his students are tired of re-hashing the past and would like to get on with their training without having to constantly hear this gossip, I most likely would have understood and probably would have responded with a sorry and a possible retraction. Instead I receive insulting comments to myself and my Wing Chun brothers and sisters, as well as my Sifu, which were also threatening.

I was TOLD to retract my TERRIBLE story of Mr. Williams or else and that I also owe him an apology. My advice to Mr. Williams is to have more of a professional person deal with your PR. Having one of your students out of control, sending people threats, does not do any good to your own image or organization. I agree what happened between you and Fong Sifu was a long time ago and that it is in the past. But because the both of you are common names in the Wing Chun community, unfortunately the stories are often re-hashed. You can not escape this talk or control it, it happens. Just take a look around the net, currently, there are four negative posts going on regarding my Sifu on the VTAA.

Patrick Gordon.

[reneritchie]

WCML members have received threats in the past of a similar nature (I think some have small collections). I have no idea if the 'name' involved has any firsthand knowledge of them, or whether they come from actual students who, in their passion for their teacher are under the misguided impression this does anything but ruin what they seem to want to protect.

In any case, no matter who is behind it, or who engages in it, its completely unacceptable to threaten someone so you should always immediately forward any such emails, along with complete header information to the RCMP or FBI, to cover any possible current charges and/or future which may result.

RR

[Rolling Elbow]

I don't know.. fong seems pretty solid to me. Isn't that all that matters? If you can handle your own and teach people how to defend themselves smartly then I'd say that's all that matters. All this lineage talk in Wing Chun is quite tiresome..there are soo many people out there..The minute one person begins to teach what he has made his own (his version and perception of what was taught to him by a man who had his own perception), the art begins to evolve. Some may be stronger than others (this a reason why many should not be soo quick to think they can teach), but all hopefully will put the practitioner in a better place to protect him or herself. Mr. Gordon, I wouldn't even waste my breath on this because it is likely from a 15 year old kid who watches Randy Williams video tapes and lives on StreetFighter.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Patrick Gordon
Last week I responded to a chat line post and have since received three threatening emails from one of own list members, Tap Man. In the email, I was continually insulted and was told if I did not retract my message on the chat site I would be dealt with

LOL. If you are ever threatened physically, I hope it's Randy Williams or R. Lowenhagen. At least then, you can feel safe.

If people want to make claims they can't support, they shouldn't get angry when others point out the emperor has no clothes.

Regards,

Grendel

[Tap Man]

Fine go ahead and ban me from the forum. Since threads go on and on bashing my Sifu and except for a small few no one says anything as more and more jump in to stick a jab here or a slanderous comment there. Then as soon as I or someone like me sticks up for our Sifu then everyone starts piping in about how the threads are not suppose to be used that way. Well obivously for the threads that are used that way we are suppose to just eat crap that others continually dish out against our sifu's with no one moderating them.

I am not exactly sure what Patrick expects me to do. I have given him all the evidence he needs to know that his statements were wrong and that he shouldn't have made them. It is true that as a last result, we CRCA guys always offer to fight the guys who bash us or our teacher on the net. And yes I admit to contacting several people about this. We are martial artist, some people seem to forget the combat side of the arts. Was not the legend of Wing Chun, going off of the Yip Man style, created to "combat" someone. A more efficient fighting art? We are fighters whether we choose to fight with our fists or if you choose to fight with your keyboard.

Go ahead and ban me if you wish. Perhaps my time would be best spent watching videos and playing street fighter! Since that is the only way I can ever attain the keyboard warrior skills that a select few of you showcase.

Tap Man Out

[rubthebuddha]

heard any stories of yip man attacking someone for disagreements? all the fights i know of him having were in self defense or in defense of others.

martial artists are not martial artists because they can fight. anyone who can fight is a fighter. a martial artist is a lot more than that, and aspects of respect, humility and charity are some of the more important ones. if you're so busy taking flak on an internet forum about your sifu to heart, and you feel it's your duty to threaten anyone who gives such flak, then good riddance. this website is for dialogue, discussion and at times criticism. if you find threats are necessary, take them back to the playground where they belong -- with the rest of the children.

stick up for you sifu all you want -- that's commendable. but threatening someone on your sifu's behalf because they were verbally negative toward your sifu -- that's dispicable.

[yuanfen]

Patrick: This is not the first time there have been threats like that.
I wouldnt lose any sleep over that. I am glad that you brought it
out in the open. You might want to follow the course of action suggested by Rene about reporting the mails specially the ones sent directly to you.

[[Censored]]

Wing Chun - The Art of Losing One's Temper

I never heard that particular legend before.

[yuanfen]

rub the buddha- good points and good reminders.

[edward]

if i got my ass kicked by a guy with a lisp... yeah, i'd be afraid....

[OdderMensch]

rubthebuddha

heard any stories of yip man attacking someone for disagreements?

um, yeah a couple.

Patrick Gordon

From all the crap you read on the web today, I really don’t feel what I wrote was very terrible or that far from the truth. I cannot be entirely sure since I was not there or did not hear the telephone call, so perhaps I shouldn’t speak for others.If you feel I did write something I shouldn’t have or am wrong, please let me know. This is just what I heard. How Tap Man responded to the post was very unnecessary.

unnecessary, but surely not unexpected. While you don't come right out and say Randy William's kung fu is poopey you heavily impled it. Quoteing from Mr. Williams own work on the subject after expressing your ignorance on the subject (as you do in this thread) would have been a better starting point. You may not have expected such a rash response, but certainly you sought a reaction.

I agree what happened between you and Fong Sifu was a long time ago and that it is in the past. But because the both of you are common names in the Wing Chun community, unfortunately the stories are often re-hashed. You can not escape this talk or control it, it happens. Just take a look around the net, currently, there are four negative posts going on regarding my Sifu on the VTAA.

I hardly ever check the VTAA. i did for a bit, now I feel its all suspect. I supose is I had some connection to the VTAA, or just realy wanted to pretend I was RR while makeing bodily fluid jokes..........just keep that off of KFO.

Tap Man

Go ahead and ban me if you wish. Perhaps my time would be best spent watching videos and playing street fighter! Since that is the only way I can ever attain the keyboard warrior skills that a select few of you showcase

I tend to be against banning, but makeing pysical threats, empty or not, over the fourm is over the line. WC is all about the efficientcy. Thinking of and posting an inteligent response costs much less then a plane ticket, and does not make you or Randy Williams look bad.

[Merryprankster]

Tap Man,

Have any of your guys fought in Fire and Ice, Excaliber or the other local fighting event I can't think of down that way?

I only ask because there is some WC school down there that keeps putting people in the ring.

[yuanfen]

Oddermensch sez:
I hardly ever check the VTAA. i did for a bit, now I feel its all suspect. I supose is I had some connection to the VTAA, or just realy wanted to pretend I was RR while makeing bodily fluid jokes..........just keep that off of KFO.
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While the VTAA now has their own site, the fact that they sponsored the xxxxchat discussion and still carry it attached to their web page does not reflect well on their supposed leadership
in HK/Yip Man wing chun. Some of the anonymous who post there
even assume other peoples names including Rene"s. Some of them troll at KFO too- if you look at the details of writing characteristics. There is no point in wasting time or being concerned about who is being roasted. Its the internet at some of its worst, a den of juveniles and many folks get more or less 15 minutes of fame.

[reneritchie]

Tapman - If you want to defend your sifu's name, then do so through good example, through display of martial virtue and confidence that comes through martial attainment. To threaten people not only doesn't defend your sifu, it makes him, through you, look much, much worse. To paraphrase - better to be thought of badly than to open your mouth and prove you're bad.

If you want to see more people praise your sifu, the simple answer is do more praise worthy things.

Joy - Yes, our trolls do seem to pop up both here and there. They have no shame, no honor, and I doubt legitimate sifu or instruction in WCK. It's a pity, if they spent half the time trying to find a decent sifu and training WCK that they do playing childish internet games, they may discover some self-respect and achieve some much needed self-confidence. And also agreed that the board reflects very poorly on the VTAA, and on the WCK family in general for the costant public bikering.

RR

[Patrick Gordon]

Howdy folks,

Thanks for your advice, it has all been good. believe me Joy, I will not miss any sleep over it. My wife is expecting to give birth within the month, it is then I will be missing the sleep, so i've heard. Rene, I may take your advice, you never know in today's world.

Quote from Oddermensch (where is that name from?):

unnecessary, but surely not unexpected. ODD

I would say it was was unexpected, especially if you go back and read some of the other nagative posts. Mine didn't really stand out. PG

While you don't come right out and say Randy William's kung fu is poopey you heavily impled it.
Quoteing from Mr. Williams own work on the subject after expressing your ignorance on the subject (as you do in this thread) would have been a better starting point. You may not have expected such a rash response, but certainly you sought a reaction. ODD

Tap Man said Mr.Williams visit to Ho Kam Ming was what ended his relationship with Fong Sifu. I wrote what I have heard as a reason to why it happened. I may be wrong because as i said, I was not there, I believe only three people know what happened, one whom probably doesn't remember or could care less. PG

Anyways, this is the last time I bring up Williams name, so it should make tap man somewhat happy, I think? I don't have time for this type of talk and get nothing out of it, besides with the new baby, I may be a bit busy for the next couple of years?? take care and enjoy your training, sincerely,

patrick Gordon.