Hung Gar Mui Fah Kuen

[Paul Skrypichayko]

From what I know about history, Hung Hei Guen's son, Hung Man Ting, practiced southern shaolin (aka Nam Kuen, aka Hung Kuen, aka Hung Gar, etc...) Perhaps he may have taught a little bit of kung fu in his travels, and his "students" may have put their own ideas or flavor into it. This might explain ha say fu's story.

Not commenting on the effectiveness or legitimacy of ha say fu, I believe it was evolved from hung gar, same as many other "tiger" themed styles. White tiger (bak fu pai) and Fu Jow Pai (tiger claw style) are all recent inventions with colorful histories, but in reality, they are based on a few techniques and ideas from southern shaolin / hung gar. Sifu Wong Kiew Kit of Malaysia also supports this claim.

Much of the village kung fu in southern china claims to be southern shaolin or go by the name of hung gar. Often what happened in the old days was a village would hire a kung fu master to teach the villagers martial arts for a short time, or the village might send a few people to go learn from a master. Often, the "master" was the only person around with any kung fu knowledge, which was usually very limited. Because of this you have all kinds of people with their own versions of styles, their own unique styles of kung fu, with little or no quality control. Just by looking at all the different types of so called hung gar/southern shaolin, you can see some of it isn't as "authentic" as others.

I know that San Dong Hak Fu (Shantung Black Tiger) became very famous for just specializing in the few tiger moves, and created their own style/school/group quite a while ago.

From what my sifu has told me, there is a gung ji fook fu doy dar (taming the tiger sparring set). Basically, it isn't even a "form", just a collection of very simple drills and techniqes. His opinion is to rather spend time on three star blocking, or Fu Hok Doy Dar.

I have noticed recently that on Lam Jo's son's site, they claim that their father created fu hok doy dar. I also believe this to be false. Didn't Wong Fei Hung choreograph this set with the help of Lam Sai Wing? Perhaps Lam Jo created his own version as well?

[Paul Skrypichayko]

In the days of southern shaolin, I don't think ha say fu, sandong hak fu, or any of the other styles existed.

If someone specialized in tiger techniques, that is what they specialized in. The still practiced shaolin kung fu, or some family style.

[Kung Lek]

hi-

correct me if i'm wrong but:

hay=lower
say=four(4)
fu=tiger

this is of course the cantonese but is this not the meaning? i have never heard of a village called hay say fu, it's interesting though.

peace

------------------
Kung Lek

[Paul Skrypichayko]

I dont know, but I wouldnt be surprised ...some villages and places in China have some pretty wierd names.

Anybody on here see that Jet Li movie "Hung Hei Guen"? In English they call it "new legend of shaolin". It is very loosely based on Hung Hei Guen and friends.

Ahh...finally a wealth of knowledge without any barbs at all. You guys are my heroes. Nearly all my questions were just answered. Many thanks! This thread just brought together all kinds of little bits of info for me. This is kind of interesting, but my kwoon seems to have a lot of women. Half of them are in the medical or healing field (this includes me)So it was very interesting to find out a little more about Mok Gwai Lan&Wong Fai Hung being involved in the healing arts.I actually have the Dit Da Jow recipe from them, given to me by my Sifu.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Jeez Tigerlilly......all you had to do was wait for it. Or you coulda asked directly!
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Laukarbo]

Bringing an old thread back to life...

here are 2 versions of mui fah kuen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sc6bINLgJg
this one is Lau Family version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtjpaa-tcxs



as a sidenote Hung Hei Goons son Hung Man Tin was made up by Lau Kar Leung for the movie executioners from shaolin

[PM]

i did not read the whole previous discussion, but as far as i know (as i heard from different people coming form LSW lineage, eg. Wong Lei's stuudents and grandstudents):

mui fa kyun was choreographed by Bun Gwaiyat sifu, who has studied under Lam Saiwing and Lam Jou

wu dip jeung was choreographed by Leung Winghang, student of Lam Saiwing

no Lam Saiwing, no comitte of Hung Kyun sifu's, no Jing Mou Association etc.

[TenTigers]

"mui fa kyun was choreographed by Bun Gwaiyat sifu, who has studied under Lam Saiwing and Lam Jou"

Choreographed, but not created. I have seen a practitioner from a "non-Hong Kong" Hung-Ga lineage perform a set that was extremely similar, although played alot more aggressive with more forward movement, as opposed to a back and forth type of play. His line, although from Wong Fei-Hung, did NOT come through Lam Sai-Wing. I believe it was through Malaysia.

[ymotion]

I concur with Pm post regarding Mui fa.

I learned the set from my first sifu who was a student of John leong. he said the same thing PM did.

Also, to clear up any debate about my Sifus (YC Wong) two sets. We have only 2 empty hands set, Gung gee and Fu hok. Both are practiced equally. The gung gee was choreographed by Lam sai wing and Fu hok by Sigung Lam jo. The rest of our 2 man forms are weapon sets.

As to the history lesson Paul has presented. In my nearly 20 years of practicing Hung gar, none of what Paul presents is anywhere near the truth of what I have heard from a variety of lineages. I would agree more with what Haysafu has presented.

Paul, I find that you are not showing good moral character in this matter. Hung gar has always been know for practioners that take the high road. Haysafu, is a knowledgable and good guy. I have met him. You have attacked him and his families character with your truely insulting posts. You may not agree with Haysafu, but that does not give you the right to flame his kung fu family.

You, sir are guilty of bad manners. If anyone is losing face, it is YOU and your family by your insulting tone and remarks. In the old days, such talk would have resulted in someone "showing up at your door" and you getting the s**t beat out of you.

Also when it boils down to it, who cares who trained with who? Good Kung fu is Good kung fu. It is the skill that really matters, not the history.

We all know that there are issues between some of our Sifu's. That was made clear many years ago on this board and the former southern fist forum. They have cleared the air so to speak between them. Everybody show respect to other and these issues for the most part have been resolved between our sifus. Let us not show poor communtiy spirit by getting into things that have nothing to do with us.

[banditshaw]

Ymotion,
I agree with you on this matter, but look when this thread started and pretty much ended(2000).
It's all old news and most likely water under the bridge so to speak.
Most of the people on the thread don't even post anymore.

[specialed]

i did not read the whole previous discussion, but as far as i know (as i heard from different people coming form LSW lineage, eg. Wong Lei's stuudents and grandstudents):

mui fa kyun was choreographed by Bun Gwaiyat sifu, who has studied under Lam Saiwing and Lam Jou

wu dip jeung was choreographed by Leung Winghang, student of Lam Saiwing

no Lam Saiwing, no comitte of Hung Kyun sifu's, no Jing Mou Association etc.

Proof of this?

Who cares anyway? Why waste time training this form? Everything in it is expressed elsewhere in the Hung system anyway.

[TenTigers]

actually, there are specific trapping and dealing with traps within this set that are not seen within the other forms, as such-which is why it was formed.

[specialed]

actually, there are specific trapping and dealing with traps within this set that are not seen within the other forms, as such-which is why it was formed.

No, not really. But of course if you need more forms, by all means enjoy. Which version are you working on? Book or video?

[TenTigers]

hmmmm, niether. actually it's a version of Dance Dance Revolution. You get to do the steps of the form along with this neat disco music and japanime cartoons of ninjas. I'm hoping to get the one with numbchux too.
-actually, I'm surprised that nobody invented this yet. It's sure to be a hit with all the McDojo dropouts.
all kidding aside, I understand what you are saying, and I don't believe in forms collectors, but I find this is a good teaching aid. It serves my purposes for now. I guess we'll just agree to dissagree.