Angry white pyjamas

[Liokault]

Any one here read Angry white pyjamas?

Its a good book by a guy called Robert Twigger.

It traces a year or so he spends in Japan and the Aikido riot trainning course he attends full time for a year.

The most revealing chapter of the book for me is when the head of the Aikido school dies and all the top teachers from around the world come to the funeral. they go out drinking (in tokyo) and get in a string of fights. When asked one of R Twigger fellow students who witnessed the fighting said that all thease guys didnt use any fancy wrist locks or cool throws but just waded in with haymakers!!!

This kind of worries me as Tai Chi is not that from removed from Aikido. But at least the drunked bums won.

[Xebsball]

Sounds like the top teachers sucked.

Its sad, but i believe that few of todays Tai Chi praticioners worldwide would do any better than using haymakers.

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by Liokault

This kind of worries me as Tai Chi is not that from removed from Aikido. But at least the drunked bums won.

Sez, who?? NO established link exists between Aikido and either Taiji or Bagua.

But this can be easily verified by asking the Aikikai Honbu in Tokyo, last time I asked the answer was a firm NO.

Cheers.

[Liokault]

Sez, who?? NO established link exists between Aikido and either Taiji or Bagua.

sHey jumpy!

Im not talking about direct links or any thing I am talking about 'principle'. i.e the ideas behind Tai Chi are not soi far remover from those of aikido.

I am not saying that anyone who was responsibale for aikido ever learnt tai chi.




Anyway its a good book.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Liokault
But at least the drunked bums won.

"drunken"

What do you mean by "at least" they won?
ain't more to it than that.

[HuangKaiVun]

What's wrong with haymakers?

Tai Chi has punches all over the place.

Every branch of Taijiquan I can think of has those heavy smacking punches that are meant to drop guys. Not just haymakers, but jabs and body blows.

Sounds like they fought PROPERLY, though not for the right reasons.

[anerlich]

I read the book. It was entertaining and well written.

[Budokan]

Funny. I was in Borders today and actually flipped through that book. Didn't buy it though....

[Stranger]

"I have never read the book nor have I personally trained in Yoshinkan Aikido.

I wouldn't necessarily consider the aikido bar fight a dark mark on the effectiveness of the style. Most styles don't work so well when drunk, some moreso than othes. Yoshinkan Aikido requires a keen sense of distance, timing, and center combined with fast flowing reflexes and rooted in calmness. All of these requisites would be effected after a few drinks and be almost non-existant after a night of binge drinking combined with grief misdirected into random anger and violence.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is something to consider."

***************************************
This is my quote from the last time this debate raged oh so long ago (last month ). Nobody cared to comment on it, but which style works when you are out of your mind with grief and hammered with alcohol? Unless you are studying a streamlined system based on gross motor movements and requiring no depth-perception or balance, heavy alcohol intake will erode your skills.

Maybe we can have one of those great KFO discussions wherein Ueshiba $ucks, the Japanese are naught but poor aping martial arts goons, and aikido is directly drawn from just about every KF style, despite the complete lack of any compelling historical argument or bit of evidence suggsting so)?

[Former castleva]

Heard that once before,and I still can´t think of it as anything but a joke...
Not once I have heard of any link to this from any single practitioner&even boards like aikidojournal and various others...
It seems like these would be the last ppl on earth to do that,and WHY? I may,I just might believe this but these are either lower class practitioners,whose names I have never heard of...or aikido community is so sensitive about these guys ruining their reputation that it has been buried like Andy Kaufman from pop-culture...hmmm.

[KC Elbows]

Ugh...

Simple logic. That's all it takes. These are all martial artists. Odds are pretty good that a number of them are familiar with various styles.

Now, they are grief stricken and drunk, remembering the death of teacher. They get in fights. Fists go flying. Now, do drunken people run around going 'I'm gonna restrain that guy like he's never been restrained before'? I don't think so.

Of course, now these guys are 'low level' because they mourned their teacher's passing in their own way, or just thugs(as if that precludes them from being high level practitioners of a fighting art, even aikido). Exactly how many of the legends of asian martial arts involve drunken 'masters' beating people up? Those dang low class unknown thugs. Always making things harder for those upper class even lesser known guys.

Also, aikido has way more in common with pa kua than tai chi.

[Liokault]

I think most of what has been above is true....but I am still kind of disapointed with the niggiling feeling that I have at the back of my head that it all comes down to wild haymakers in the end.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Liokault
I think most of what has been above is true....but I am still kind of disapointed with the niggiling feeling that I have at the back of my head that it all comes down to wild haymakers in the end.

Police restrain people all of the time. And knives beat haymakers a good amount of the time.

[ewallace]

But at least the drunked bums won.

'Nuff said. They won. I'd much rather win and/or survive then look graceful like a flower blooming in the spring.

[Liokault]

So if it all comes down to haymakers why bother with all the training?

Does any one here train to throw a good haymaker?