12 Pattern Hung Kuen?

[MoQ]

Has anybody seen this book by Leung Ting, called "12 Pattern Hung Kuen"? I remember it from years ago and it had some very strange little hand skills. Ring a bell?

[Je Lei Sifu]

MoQ,

I remember a book by Lueng Ting titled the 5 pattern Hung Kuen.

That lineage supposed to be the lineage of Fong Sai Yuk, the young hero of shaolin.

The book can still be purchased in some chinatowns.

Never heard of 12 Pattern Hung Kuen.

Je Lei Sifu

[MoQ]

Okay, maybe it WAS 5 pattern. I saw it 20yrs ago and was just wondering if anyone had heard of it. Thanks...

[Paul Skrypichayko]

There is also Kwan Tak Hing's own version of Sup Ying Kuen (ten form hung gar). He just made it up though, nothing to do with real hung gar.

I think Leung Ting published it, or co-authored it.

[illusionfist]

If i am not mistaken, Kwan Tak Hing also made up his own Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, it only has like 30 something postures in the whole thing.

Peace [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[mantis108]

HI All,

I tought MoQ was going to talk about the 12 bridges of Hung Gar. I would to have a technical discussion on them. Anyone would undertake that? Je Lei Sifu or Paul may be? How about you MoQ?

Also, the 8 words principles - Gong (solid), Yau (fluid), Bik (press), Jik (direct), Tigh (lift), Lau (skip), Fun (seperate), and Ghai (control). Any thoughts on that, too? Are they related to the 12 bridges? Are 12 bridges formulated from the 8 words or vise versa? If you were to conceptualize Hung Gar, would you have focus mainly on the 12 bridges "Sep Yi Gee Kiu" and the 8 words "Bhat Ji Kuit"?

It would be interesting to explore this area.

Peace

Mantis108

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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[MoQ]

108- They may not respond since they think these are "secret", but the names are similar to bridges in all southern styles.
Between South Mantis, Bak Mei and Lung Ying Kuen, I wouldn't think Hung Ga would hold much interest for you.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Secret? What secret?

Mantis 108, go ahead, I'm sure it would make a great discussion topic. I have learned the techniques and the training, but I haven't learned the words and names of most things.

Of course there will be similarities in most southern kung fu, after all, most of it came from hung gar originally.

[MoQ]

Oh, but there's always someone who's learned a little that's willing to spill the beans...

[mantis108]

There is a saying "secret squirells collect secrets nuts, that just NUTS". I for one think that is why we traditionalist got the bad reputations in the first place. It is the details (techniques) that make a move effective. These details are acquired by the empirial behavioral method. IMHO, at the novice and the master's level all things become equal. Only when we are in the middle that we are lost in the vast sea of mediocrcy. I admit that I am in no where near mastery but if we don't share what we know than we may be giving the pretenders more chance to further tarnish the good names of all traditional arts. Having said that, I realize I may have stepped on someones' toes. Hopefully they are just shaken not stirred. I understand some people being skeptical of true sharing (I often wonder about that too), but I believe true martial artists' spirits are pure as gold. Beside, running water never stale. I have more than enough to share, and I hope we all are in the spirit of sharing. Remeber, Kung Fu or knowledge for that matter, unlike money, the more you spent the greater value you get in return. Sorry, rambling on; just thought that I'll clear the air.

Hi MoQ,

Thanks for responding. I value your views, so please go head share your insights. I am sure I'll benefit from it.

Paul,

Thanks for the support. I'll share my views and I'd love to hear yours, too.

Anyone else?

Peace

Mantis108

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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[illusionfist]

The Sup Yee Gee Kiu Sau are- (drum roll please):

1. Gong Kiu (strong movements, forceful)
2. Yau Kiu (soft movements, but not weak)
3. Bik Kiu (squeezing and colliding)
4. Jik Kiu (Straight, thrusting movements)
5. Fun Kiu (Dividing or splitting)
6. Ding Kiu (Stabilization)
7. Chieun Kiu (Linking motions, connected)
8. Tai Kiu (Supporting, to lift)
9. Lau Kiu (Stationary posture)
10. Wan Kiu
11. Jai Kiu
12. Deng Kiu

The last three are left out for a reason...

Peace [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Je Lei Sifu]

Peace, brothers.

The only secret in any given martial arts style, is that you practice harder than you did the day before.

As far as the 12 bridges are concern, Illusionfist has already given the names and there meaning. He did not mention the last three for his own reason which should not be question. However the other three deal with circular transition, determination, and exactness, but maybe not in that order.

Also, there are the five emotions of Hung Gar, which are; happiness,anger,sadness,sorrow,and fear. This emotions are demonstrated in the performance of the Tit Sin Kuen.

Once again, no secrets, just effort and determination in your training.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

[illusionfist]

The reason why i left the last three descriptions out is because i feel that they should be explained by a competent teacher and also because the content that is covered by those three kiu can be considered dangerous.

Wasn't trying to be annoying about it, just doing it because i felt that i wasn't the person that should explain them. I feel that certain things just shouldn't be discussed on these types of forums because any schmoe can happen upon some knowledge that wasn't meant for them. Just looking out for folks, that's all [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Peace out [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[MoQ]

See what I mean? Most times, those with a little knowledge say "no secrets" and want disclose all and those who know...don't care to speak much.

[bean curd]

when something is precious, it is cherished, if it is given away too freely, its beauty is lost.

when it is achieved through hard work, the value is in the finding, if it is found without the work, something else is looked for.

[This message has been edited by bean curd (edited 07-10-2000).]