Fu-Jow Pai

[KrAzy FiLiPino]

Tigerlilly,

I am from Tucson also. I was curious, when is a good time to come in and watch a class? Also, how much is it to train per month and how long have you been studying? I appreciate any response.

Respectfully,
Daryl

Mon and Wed are Kung Fu night 7-9 p.m. Tues and Thurs. are full contact/grappling night 7-9 p.m. Oh my God please... tell me who you are right away Daryl. Hinzman totally messes with new people's heads! I'm the Si Goo Mui who begins class on Mon and Wed nights. You can ask for tigerlilly. I'll defend you. I've been at this kwoon for 2yrs. It's 65.00 a month and that's for all the classes. You want. I only go to grappling class if I'm training for something specific. It's a rough class. There's also a 3 hr. open mat every Sat 3-6p.m. That's very casual. My personal favorite.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-20-2000).]

[KrAzy FiLiPino]

Tigerlilly,

That sounds like a great school. I studied over at Fong Sifu's for only a few months. Had to drop cuz of school and work [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]. That was '96 and I am 20 now, I love Wing Chun but I am looking for someone from the William Cheung lineage of Wing Chun to study from. Hung Gar is also something I am very interested in. If your there next Monday, I would like to stop by to watch a class. Where is it on 22nd? I live right across the street from Sabino Caynon. One last question, have you heard of "Kyriako's Kung Fu Academy", he teaches Wing Chun. Is he from Augustine Fong Sifu's lineage? Thanks for any response.

Respectfully,

Daryl

The kwoon is on 22nd and Wilmot. It's on the n.w. corner next to Tony's italian deli about half a block west of the light. Kyriako's is a Wing Chung kwoon that's on Wrightstown. They're nice, but they don't spar there... forms and lots and lots of stancework. I like something a little tougher myself. I'm unsure of their lineage.

[loquito]

Tigerlilly,

Would your Sifu know of any Fu-Jow Kwoons and/or Fu-Jow practioners in the Southern Cal area.

Thanks,
loquito

I will ask later today for you Ioquito. But I've been told this is a rare lineage, esp. on the west coast.

[loquito]

Tigerlilly,

I very much appreciate you asking for me. Any Fu-Jow Pai in the So. Cal area would be of great help to me.

Regards,
loquito

[FIRE HAWK]

HI in a book called FIVE ANCESTOR FIST KUNG FU THE WAY OF NGO CHO KUN by author ALEXANDER L.CO on page 31 and in the glossary of terms they mention the most popular styles that are practiced in FUKIEN province a few are PEHO (FUKIEN WHITE CRANE) NGO CHO KUN (FIVE ANCESTORS FIST)CHUA KUN (SNAKE STYLE)TE BOK SUT (DOG STYLE)CHUKA (SOUTHERN SHAOLIN STYLES)and then they mention FU JOW PAI (TIGER STYLE) i wonder if this FU JOW PAI that is in FUKIEN province has anything to do with the FU JOW PAI style that is here in America.There is two books called FIVE PATTERN HUNG KUEN by author LEUNG TING in the books they talk about the tiger pattern in it it says tactics of the tiger pattern are come from the HUNG MUN RED SECT (WHITE TIGER STYLE)and the HAK MUN BLACK SECT(BLACK TIGER STYLE)these books have very poetic names for each tecnique maybe there is a connection with FU JOW PAI and HAK FU PAI tiger styles.THE HUNG MUN BLACK SECT or(BLACKTIGER) and the HUNG MUN RED SECT (WHITE TIGER)arent these names for secret societys like the triads and the heavan and earth groups that tried to destroy the Ching Dynasty.In a magazine called KUNG FU WUSHU QIGONG the Millennium Edition they list diferent BLACK TIGER STYLES ZHEJIANG BLACK TIGER FIST,SICHUAN BLACK TIGER FIST,and a northern BLACK TIGER FIST STYLE from the northern province of GANSU.There is also a book called WHITE TIGER VERSUS THE BLACK TIGER OF THE LAO HU CLAN of the SEVEN STAR SYSTEM KUNG FU the Black tiger form in this book looks like FU JOW PAI.And then there is the SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER wich is posted on the other board which i am know confused about its history does someone know the history of the SHANGTUNG BLACK TIGER. FIRE HAWK

[SwiftKill]

Tigerlilly,

Your Si Gung(Don Hinzman), does he know Fu-Jow Pai and if yes, is he a master in the system or a degree ranked disciple and by who? Also, do you know when Dave Kovar was learning Fu-Jow from Wai Hong and what rank was he given and also by who? Does your kwoon have a web site? Just curious.

I'm sorry to say that my sifu said that there is no one in s. ca that he would recommend for Fu Jow Pai. He has been studying Fu Jow Pai and Hung Gar since he was 6. His first black belt and the first 2 degrees are from Kovar. The third is actually from a guy named Shawn McGregor and then 4th 5th and 6th are from Darius Ross. He also is a Judo master that is from Gene Labelle.He also has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do from Tim Rymer.He has one other Japanese style black belt but I can't remember off the top of my head. I was wrong about who taught Kovar though sifu said he would have to look it up for me. Hinzman's fighting record is 243 wins 1 loss. Used to fight under the school name of the Black Tiger Fighting Rebellion if that rings a bell w/ any old timers.Yes Eng is in Campbell and Kovar is in Sacramento. These are the only FJP that sifu mentioned in Ca.that are worth recommending.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-25-2000).]

[loquito]

Tigerlilly,

Thanks for the effort, very much appreciated.

I'll continue my search and hope to swing by your kwoons some day.

Regards,
loquito

[SwiftKill]

Hi Tigerlilly,

I am a curious. You said that your Si-Gung(Don), studied with Dave Kovar at the age of 6 until the age of 15 receiving his black belt and first 2 degree's from Kovar. The third is actually from a guy named Shawn McGregor and then 4th, 5th and 6th are from Darius Ross. So are you saying that Don was a 2nd Degree in the Fu-Jow Pai System at the age of 15 and then later in time became a 6th degree in the Art of Fu-Jow Pai. Correct me if I am wrong but it is hard to believe that your Si-Gung became a 2nd Degree in Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai at the age of 15. Also, where(City & State) did the Black Tiger Fighting Rebellion fight at and did they ever fought in Wai Hong's Full Contact Tournament and what year?

No actually Kovar waited until Don was 18 to to test him for his 2nd. You know that IS 9 years of studying a system and that's hung gar and fu jow pai combined. If you're going to attempt to dis my sifu I WILL NOT TALK TO YOU anymore. I don't care if you don't believe me either.Tigerlilly does not lie. You know he still is in contact w/ Kovar if you want to talk to him about my sifu. He would have been in the tournaments you're talking about from the mid seventies to 1989. The BTFR was out of Sacramento. His nickname I think was Alleycat. He was also a body guard for rock bands in the 80's. And was one of the main self defense instructors for the guardian angels(remember those guys?)He did all these things before the age of 25 too. Hey Daryl what happened to you? I have a month pass for you if you want it.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-26-2000).]

[KrAzy FiLiPino]

Sorry 'bout Monday, I have school right now and am stressed out and busy . I will show up next week though at 7:00 pm. Thanks for the invitation.

Respectfully,

Daryl

[This message has been edited by KrAzy FiLiPino (edited 07-26-2000).]

[SwiftKill]

Hello Tigerlilly,

If you read my replies carefully, you will know I have no intention to 'dis' your sifu but if it makes you feel better for you to see me write it then fine. I am not going to dis your sifu in anyway. So RELAX and PUT THE GUARDS DOWN for I am a peacefully man with just simple questions.
Now I know 9 years is a long time but 9 years between the ages of 6 and 15 while studying Fu-Jow(only) does not mean that someone can still easily achieve a high degree in that system. If you know the high standards of Fu-Jow Pai, especially back when Fu-Jow Pai was finally being taught to non-asian, then you hopefully should know that it did not happen. Now I am ofcourse mainly talking about Fu-Jow Pai not Hung-Gar; in Fu-Jow I do believe there are certain standards, requirements, forms, techniques and theories that should be known for each level of degree. And there must be a mass amount of knowledge leading to a high degree that cannot just yet be taught to a youngster say between the ages of 6 to 15 for any system out there if the teacher teaches the individual correctly and by not watering down the system.
Now I did not say I do not believe you nor did I call you a lair, I am just asking questions based on your info. Now when you wrote that "You know he still is in contact w/ Kovar if you want to talk to him about my sifu." who is 'he' that you are talking about, I am not sure if you mean your sifu or someone else, please specify. Also, when you state in your post "He would have been in the tournaments you're talking about from the mid seventies to 1989." are you saying that he did compete in Wai Hong's Full Contact tournaments in the mid seventies to 1989 or that he would have but did not for some reason, please specify. Now this question is towards Fu-Jow Pai only not Hung-Gar. Your sifu received his 3rd degree from Shawn McGregor his 4th, 5th and 6th from Darius Ross; are these rank degree's given to your sifu for his knowledge in the Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw System alone or are they degree's given to him for his knowledge in the Hung-Gar system by itself?
For my final question. Did you find out when did (date in time) Dave Kover was learning Fu-Jow Pai, what was his highest achievment in the system and from whom did he learn and achieve these degree's from.
Thank you for you post and I hope to hear from you soon. Later.