How do you spar??

[Wilson]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about sparring. I've trained in JKD, Muay Thai and now mostly Wing Chun. It was easy to spar in Muay Thai because all you have to do is tone it down a little, square off, and go at it like you would in a ring. With Wing Chun, its a more difficult because I don't like the whole "square off and go at it" because it makes it more of a sport atmosphere. In reality, you'd be trying to end it quickly.....whether it be a kick to the knee, hitting the opponent while off balance, percussion hitting, whatever.

Last night I tried some "situational" sparing and I liked it. One drill was, one person was standing relaxed, another came up from the side and thru a punch. Then you reacted and went from there. Others could be squaring off with the assumption that 1 is the attacker, the other defends, and go from there.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. What I don't like is getting into hit for hit, back out - go in, dance around type sparring. I'd rather try to simulate real fight situations, if possible. Even if the other guy dances, I'll stand with hands out and wait, react and try to end quickly. Or if I want to attack first, its on my terms....not by jabbing and dancing.

I think stand up sparring needs to evolve. Grappling sparring is great because it is always situational. The moves you spar with are exactly what you would be doing. I don't think everyone spars stand up the same way. You train one way and say you'd do something else in a real situation.

How do you guys spar Kung Fu?? How do you keep it as "real" as you can? What situations do you try to simulate? What gear do you use? What rules do you use to keep it "sane". Thanks for the help.

[Ford Prefect]

Violence doesn't solve a thing. Didn't Jesus teach us anything?

[SevenStar]

I think stand up sparring needs to evolve.

No it doesn't. Sparring is just that - sparring. and there are alot of lessons to be learned from it; how to take3 a hit, dealing with adrenaline, timing, distancing, etc. a situational drill is just that - a drill. you are trying to simulate a real situation as realistically as possible while wtill being safe. They are separate tools, take them for what they are. Sparring however, will serve as an evvective method of training, especially over the short term. In the street, I'd put my money on a 6 month boxer any day over a 6 month CMA, unless he's training something like shuai chiao.

The thing you have to remember is that while sparring you are training against another skilled opponent. if your opponenet is untrained, he's not going to have the same understanding of timing, distance, etc. and you may be able to end it quickly and easily, as you have that advantage.

If you want to combine them though, find the thread Ryu started a month or two ago about situational awareness drills and try them. He does situational drills full contact, and they sound pretty good.

[SevenStar]

I don't think everyone spars stand up the same way. You train one way and say you'd do something else in a real situation.


you train the way you fight. What they SAY they'd do doesn't mean jack. what will matter is what their body is used to doing.

[Wilson]

you train the way you fight

Or fight the way you train. That is the point. I want to make sure the training is as close to what I want to happen in a real situation. I don't want to dance and trade blows like in the ring. I've done a lot of that.

I agree, being able to take hits and dealing with incoming blows is extemely important. The reason a 6 month boxer will usually take a 6 months CMA student is the training methods. My question is really how can CMA students spar effectively without resorting to standard sport sparring. Just looking for ideas.

I did read Ryu's post and thought the ideas were good.

[Liokault]

I think SevenStar is correct about this......you wont here that ofton.


Sparring is sparring......I think you are looking for somthing else altogether.

Try reading "animal day" by Geoff Thompson. Or anything by him for that matter.

[Stacey]

I spar like a gerbil tearing its way out of a gay man's ass.

[Wilson]

Maybe I am looking for something different. I want to practice something other than squaring off like a sport situation. If you want to call it "drill" or "sparring" or whatever, it doesn't matter.

My concern is that I used to only think of sparring as putting on the gloves, going for a minute or two with the opponent and then stopping. Well, in a fight, I don't want to be duking it out, back and forth, for a minute or two. I want to be in a situation to nuetralize the attack, and then respond in a quick, efficient manner.

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match? The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that? Thanks for the responses.

[Wilson]

Liokault - thanks for the recommendation on the book. I checked it out and will be buying it soon. Looks like a lot of good books on reality training by him.

[SevenStar]

ROFL @ Liokault actually agreeing with me....even though I'm usually right anyway

as for what you were looking for, here's the thing - you don't "resort to sport sparring" If you know the principles behind the techniques you are doing, you will use them when you spar. When I see MonkeyslapToo go at it, for example, he doesn't look like a sport fighter - he looks like a shuai chiao/kuntao guy. he uses the principles of his art and applies them to what he is doing. get the movement down, the footwork - the essesnce of your style. you aren't going to be able to realistically pracitce eye gouges, claws, etc. at a realistic speed. but you can use principles - yielding, shearing, etc. in conjunction with your fists, palms, etc - strikes you can effectively use. If you do that, you won't look or fight like a sport fighter.

[LEGEND]

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match?
The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that?


"CMA sparring should be very similar to other standup boxing styles! The problem with you is u want to DOMINATE your opponent. Well when u're sparring with a partner it's very difficult to DESTROY him for friendship and experience reasons. Since u're not trying to decapitate your training partner u can only go hard somewhat and YES unfortunately u will get into a toe to toe situation. You just have to keep score and recognize that yeah...that 1-2 combo would have caused damaged and really stun him...but due to 16 oz gloves and thick headgear...it didn't! In wing chun however...u should be able to hit and not be hit in theory by trapping him or applying forward pressure!

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

[LEGEND]

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match?
The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that?


"CMA sparring should be very similar to other standup boxing styles! The problem with you is u want to DOMINATE your opponent. Well when u're sparring with a partner it's very difficult to DESTROY him for friendship and experience reasons. Since u're not trying to decapitate your training partner u can only go hard somewhat and YES unfortunately u will get into a toe to toe situation. You just have to keep score and recognize that yeah...that 1-2 combo would have caused damaged and really stun him...but due to 16 oz gloves and thick headgear...it didn't! In wing chun however...u should be able to hit and not be hit in theory by trapping him or applying forward pressure!

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

[SevenStar]

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

you're referring to a WC guy fighting a non trained opponent, right?

[LEGEND]

you're referring to a WC guy fighting a non trained opponent, right.

No I'm not...if u're training with classmates...depending on their level is less than yours then yes u should be able to apply forward pressure and they would not be able to retaliate effectively or at all. Hell my sifu use to tie me up in KNOTs!

[SevenStar]

I'm not thinking about classmates, but more along the lines of different styles. If that were the case, WC would dominate everybody...