Confused about Hung Gar History. Can anyone help?

[Tiger]

Hey people

I think some of you being too hard on Paul and maybe missunderstod him. Like i said before, i belive forms are very important part of gung fu and has alot to offer if trained correctly. However like paul said anyone can learn forms and even perform them well. This doesnt mean they understand the inner meaning of the forms and how to achive full benefits from it wherther its for combat or health. Think about it. Learning movments of a form is not hard but understanding and mastering them takes a long long time.
I have met many people over the years, who can perform forms very nicely and look good, but thats just about all they know. Take modern wu shu for example, dont they perform nicely,..so do you think modern wushu is a fightin art or for that matter is it the same as traditional kung fu.

Form training alone is not enough, one must do additional training in order to be good in any style CMA. For example how good are your forms going to be if you never train your sei ping ma (horse stance). Will you have stability, power, speed, etc..

I hope i have made sense this time.

All the best

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Beancrud, what do you mean by "you brush over your words on form, then continue to say that you do forms daily." Are you implying that I'm lying and changing my story? Jeez, you still don't get my point about training.

My sifu smiles at my comments and way of thinking, he approves of it, and he encourages me to work on combat training and internal training.

If you're happy just doing forms, knock yourself out! =) I'm sure you're going to become a bid sifu doing that.

I never said forms were useless, they have their purpose and their place. I do forms training, and benefit from it as well. Just letting some people out there know that there is much more than forms to practice.

Out of curiousity, who died to keep these forms alive, and why ?!?!? Who would place the value of a form above the value of a human life?

It seems like whoever has an opinion contrary to the status quo is rude and offensive. Great to see all the open minds on here.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Great post tiger, you're getting the idea. The wushu example was great, those guys can do great forms, but they have no martial skill.

I could easily learn 2 or 3 white crane forms in a day, perform them really well, and pick out tons of applications. Does that mean that I am skilled in white crane? Think about it.

So Beancurd, would you like to tell me what else I do or do not train? Care to tell me anything else about my sifu as well? You just seem to be an expert in that area, so I'd like to hear the rest of your thoughts on the topic. =)

[manfukuen]

i think its is equally important to properly learn forms as well as how to correctly execute the techniques. it is a balance of the to that makes training useful. in my school we pride ourselves on our forms as well as or martial ability. maybe the next time i am forced to subdue, injure, maim or kill an attacker, ill do it and then bust out a solid five animals form!! ha ha! discussion is great but the last thing i want to do is insult anyone or any ones art. i love hung-ga and i respect all arts. lets train well and hard so we can carry or respective system on to the next generations.


[This message has been edited by manfukuen (edited 07-18-2000).]

[KrAzy FiLiPino]

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[This message has been edited by KrAzy FiLiPino (edited 07-18-2000).]

[MoQ]

"I could easily learn 2 or 3 white crane forms in a day, perform them really well, and pick out tons of applications. Does that mean that I am skilled in white crane? Think about it."

I thought about it and you are FOS... If this is all forms are to you, no wonder you have such lofty notions about yourself...

[denali]

Maybe they should add a reading and writing form to some kung fu styles. It's not that hard to understand what Paul is saying. He isn't saying forms are useless. He is saying they are good, but also saying that they are not all there is to kung fu. He is saying that other training is essential. People who only do forms are kidding themselves.

I tend to think that some people on this board have a vendetta against Paul and misunderstand him on purpose.

peace

[MoQ]

Dude, you just don't know him like we do...

[bean curd]

paul like all your words, you lay inferance to what you percieve and yet not what is the fact.

stay on the subject, and don't bring abstracts into the convesation.

the thread question was on hung gar and the forms, direction and way the style that we know today has developed.

so going on this premise, then your comments, which after the quick points on lineage, became the statement.

when you infer that those of nowadays, what time and what era are you discussing.

all the hung gar players that i know place the forms as a treasure, and its for this reason they do the forms, with everything else that everyone has expressed on the importance of form.

then you go to wushu, crapy commercial schools etc , it's a southern thread on hung gar, your comments then reflect this, so don't bring in abstracts and say wushu, crapy commercial etc.

in referance to your little quibs, there not even worth commenting on.

in regards to you saying forms are usless, i know you did not say this, however in the context of the thread, which again i will repeat was on hung gar forms, your comment then reflects this.


as for " you brush over your word on form".

since you are from chan si gungs lineage, your sifu will know what this comment then means, and it has nothing to with me calling you a liar or you changing your opinion, when you have asked him, he will know, then you will understand there was now attack on you personaly, again it was on your words.

[Tiger]

Hi all

Going back to history side of hung gar does anyone know anything about Wong Tai? Also can anyone post some info Luk ah choi? Didnt Wong kai ying learn from Luk ah choi?

Thanks

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Luk Ah Choy was Manchu, not Han like 90% of Chinese. He was still involved in anti-Ching activities though.

Wong Tai isn't really talked about in the movies, so lots of people tend to forget about him. I think that it's very possible that Wong Tai and Wong Kay Ying both learned from Luk Ah Choy. Keep in mind, they also learned from several other masters as well.